blamebrampton | In which we stretch an analogy a little ...

In which we stretch an analogy a little ...

I was talking with a lovely young person earlier today about her idea for an hp_religion fest. Despite the fact that I am a godless heathen, I find religion endlessly fascinating and think that it works very well as a lens through which to view the Potterverse (obviously, since the author was consciously constructing a Christian allegory in parts).

Thinking about this, I had an epiphany of sorts, which relates strongly to the current brouhaha* on mpreg among my fandom friends.

My atheism does not affect the religiosity of some of my friends. Their beliefs do not affect my atheism. I would consider it the height of rudeness to tell them they cannot believe in their sundry gods, and they, after a cursory effort to convert me in a few cases, do not tell me that I must believe in one of their religions.

Some of them do believe that I am going to hell. Some of them believe that I am missing some basic truth of the universe. I believe that they believe in something a bit basically odd. Every now and then I have one of those conversations that goes: 'But how can you believe there's nothing?' 'How can you believe in something that is obviously an anthropological artefact?' 'No seriously, nothing? How?!'

However, in both cases, it doesn't matter. My lack of belief, my friends' beliefs, they are things that are important to US, not things that we need each other to adopt. The things that unite us, that bind us, are far deeper and more important.

Similarly, I think that there are lots of things in fandom that we take very very personally, but they are important to us as individuals, and when we try to make the personal public, it's just a recipe for disaster.

One of my friends loves mpreg because it soothes her soul, one of them loves it because it allows her to investigate whole new ideas in stories. I think it's fairly daft because I think stories about babies and pregnancy are essentially daft, just as I don't like avocado and am the least romantic person in the world. It doesn't matter! I leave more avocado for

pushdragon ! My mpreg atheism does not weaken anyone's mpreg faith! It's exactly the same as the way that gay marriage doesn't weaken straight marriages.

Anyway,

heathen_archive , come back! Maggie and Liz, chins up! And everyone else, like what you like, even if it's not me ;-)

* It's certainly more than a kerfuffle, but not yet a schism, and too personal to some to be considered wank.

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I think a hp_religion fest would certainly be interesting - especially since the books have come in for such criticism from some areas of organised religion. Could be a potential hot bed of conflict though.

I do enjoy reading your posts, you have such a wonderfully practical outlook on things that get the rest of us all het up :)

I was thinking of offering myself to be the official slapping spoon if she goes ahead with it. That'll be wonderful, Brammers!

*coughs, too*

I just wrote a fic on religion and not one person left a comment screaming at the way I bashed organised religion! Obviously, it's going to be the pro-religion fics that will be bashed. ;)

You are a wise woman, my friend. *bows*

I've also been staying out of this discussion because I really don't have a vested interest in mpreg, but I had to respond to this part of your post:)

Go through any fest list, and read down. Eight out of ten entries with list mpreg as a squick. And I can't help but wonder if they really don't like it, or it's a case of 'well, everyone else says they hate it'.

I don't know. I think it's more likely they either don't like it at all, may like it on occasion, but don't want it in their fest fic or they are very picky about sort of fics they enjoy, so it's easier just to say no.

I'm going to use myself as an example. I always list darkfic as a squick when I sign up for fests when I actually enjoy reading darkfic on occasion. I'm very picky about it though, and instead of spelling out exactly what squicks me about certain darkfics, I'd rather just lump the whole genre in as my squick and have my gift-writer concentrate on the sort of fics I do like.

I think it's also a bit cumbersome to use fest sign-ups as a guide to what is popular in fandom. Fest sign-ups are supposed to reflect what someone wants as a gift, and that may not match up with the what that particular person is already reading. Maybe they're dead sick of reading mpreg fics and would rather read something else.

hp religion fest... okay, I don't think this atheist can write that with the same kind of happy aplomb as you. I'm already squirming at the thought.

I appear to have missed the mpreg kerfuffle. :-)

I like you - with extreme like. lol.

I missed most of the mess. I commented on one post and didn't see any of the emotional upheaval and thought it was just a discussion. So I won't comment on the content of the upheaval at all other than to say that lucky the Simpsons girls weren't considering an mpreg fest for their next dive into fest waters. At this point in time we will be doing another themed fest but are still in the planning stages.

Perhaps a few days for everyone to take a step back from it will help. From the outside it will appear a bit wanky and the last thing anyone wants is for it to appear in FW, then the shit might really hit the fan.

Here, have my baby icon. ;)

Edited 2009-11-18 19:43 (UTC)

Well if you have any advice about wank control measures for the fest, do let me know. ;)

I'm pretty sure I am going to go ahead with it. And you're very welcome to be the official slapping spoon. :P

I was thinking this morning that this whole thing is like arguing over pineapple: some people love it, some people hate it. Me? I quite like it, but if I eat too much it makes my tongue hurt.
You can't change someone's tastebuds by shouting at them.

I find myself having to endlessly explain that, especially to our American cousins. Happily, most Australians seem fine with a lack of emotion in circumstances that do not involve sport, or animals, which works well for me.

Is it defined by bigness or a combination of bigness, softness and chunky bits? I did read something on this very topic from the OED team ... if only I could recall it!

I have been trying to manage it using hair padding, back combing and organic styling wax. I think I need a differently shaped bit of hair padding ...

*snuggles* You're very very wise. We need more people like you around and the world will be a more peaceful place. Fandom is big enough for everyone to enjoy their favourite kinks and specific likes, I don't see why people are so against a certain genre like that. It's simple; if you don't like it, just don't read it.

Yes, where did heathen_archive go???? Thank goodness her rl journal is still there though.

You are a GENIUS! Imagine how well it would have done had it been a comic! She and her publishers really missed a trick there.

You're right, of course, about the whole push-button issueness of mpreg, but I find myself wondering if it comes down to the same sort of yea or nay beliefs as anthropogenic climate change or as stone wash jeans. Increasingly it seems the former, people are willing to go to the mat over a question of taste, which baffles me.

Spare parts would make me so very happy ... And all of my fave religious figures were heretics in their day. More of it, I say!

Awake a again ... and off for a swine flu shot (bleagh!), but buoyed by your kind words! Thanks!

YES! Which is why I think a religion fest could well be fine. And BBS has loads of it at the start and the one person who complained about that was gently and reasonably reproached by others well before the reveals for that fest went out. Fandom can be grown-up!

I think only the 'art' one, which was her main fandom identity. But khateh is back, all may yet be well!

I like practicality, and think it is a much under-rated virtue ;-)

Yes to the first, but I have seen several fics contain overtly religious content, from my Beneath Boundless Sky's compassionate church comfort to Cal's Blood and Brimstone's Pullman-esque established church critique. The fall out has been very minimal indeed: one comment to me, none so far to Cal.

Perhaps they will all need to have B titles ...

Well, you've met me, never one to pass up a good argument!

I learned it all from my friends. *Points in your direction as a good influence!*

Beneath Boundless Skies (or possibly Sky) was v gently pro-religion and there was only one critique on that, which people rebutted very nicely before the Worldcup reveals that year. I think it could work!

That all sounds eminently reasonable!

Don't you find it all anthropologically fascinating? I have to confess that I do. But you're more than welcome to take the runs in opposite direction stance: I certainly have to a few fests in the past, some things scare the willies out of me!

That's a toddler, I deal better with toddlers ;-)

Your approach is by far the wisest, and will probably be the one that works. Fingers crossed!

And YAY to our mutual like and more Simpsons girls!

YES! Angel, I promise to be reasonable and considerate in all my arguments on your behalf and to keep the word length to under 1000.

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In which we stretch an analogy a little ...

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Brammers' mpreg atheism

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Re: Cyborg, British, it's all much of a muchness.

Re: This is fandom.

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Re: Brammers' mpreg atheism

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