blamebrampton: 15th century woodcut of a hound (Default)
blamebrampton ([personal profile] blamebrampton) wrote2010-09-01 07:27 pm

LJ changes bring LJ musings ...

For my part, I'm not too perturbed about the Facebook and Twitter things, since a couple of my posts went a little viral over the last two years and exactly nothing bad happened as a result. But then, I live in the happy place of having no kids, working as a creative where everyone already thinks I am a little mad, not writing actual porn, and not being able to remember when my last flocked post was, because this is not the place where I post personal stuff.

So I won't be making a list of grumbles about what I'll do if ... because it doesn't really affect me.

But I still think LJ has made a major miscalculation. They've taken a step in the Google/Facebook direction, where the underlying sentiment is that if you want something to be private, it shouldn't be on the internet. I believe that LJ is misreading itself here. For every person who uses their LJ to communicate publicly, there is at least one who uses it to communicate privately. So while the first type of user is like me, where stories, ideas, rants and sometimes just rubbish form the content of posts, the second type of user is someone who is hoping to speak to a small group of people. They may be people that he or she knows and who are far away or busy, so LJ provides a useful forum, or perhaps they are looking for new people who can talk to them and make them feel less alone, which is something that each and every one of us has done at some point in our lives and not everyone has the luxury of a large family or peer group to find those people in.

So for those private people, what LJ has done here is said that your desires are less important than the desires of those who comment on your posts. Now there is a case to be made that comments made on an LJ belong to the commenter and not the poster (indeed, it's the reason I did not import comments to Dreamwidth when I copied much of my LJ over), but picking them up and taking them outside is like you making a phonecall in the middle of a private conversation we're having at my house, so that suddenly the conversation is you, me, and the West Dapto Basketball Team, which is not what I was expecting when I invited you round for a private chat about whether or not your herbal deodorant was working.

And again, when I say that, it's a joke, but for people who are dealing with serious issues, it's not.

For some people I know of on LJ, there are very serious issues indeed. I know of people who have had fandom issues cause them grief in everything from their marriages to working with children. The solution to that in the past has been to make their LJs wholly private, but this new setting removes that certainty of privacy from their hands to the hands of anyone they allow to comment on their posts, because any comment can include a quote, and now go immediately outside the flock.

It is true that in the past people could copy and paste from behind flock anyway, but it was not as easy, and not as certain to have come from the original poster.

So now we have a system where people are reliant on others not to be twats. Which I must say is often a safe thing to rely on, the vast majority of people being actually quite decent*. But in battles of child custody, or in serious investigations into the backgrounds of those wanting to work in many agencies, the rules are not the same.

Now it may be that I have the wrong end of the stick and that somewhere in the chaos that is LJ settings is a box marked: Hide me from Facebook and Twitter, for I care not for them! But I canna find it if it's there.

I do believe that it is something LJ will fix, because they seem to not be complete bastards (unlike Facebook), but I also believe it is something they should have not broken in the first place, and which a small amount of thought would have kept whole.


* In three years on LJ I seem to have attracted about three people who seem to hate me, which at one a year is not actually bad. It appears to bring them great joy. Bless!


ext_7906: (Default)

[identity profile] complications-g.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 09:49 am (UTC)(link)
You have haters? O_o
ext_76727: (mood cranky)

[identity profile] remuslives23.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 09:50 am (UTC)(link)
I don't actually care if the buttons or app are there. I won't use them. There needs to be an opt out option, though, so I can say 'NO' to those who venture into my journal. It's not hard for a tech savvy person to link usernames and real identities and, for those with stalkers, or estranged family, or any other of a dozen bad, bad real life things happening, it could prove dangerous, not just inconvenient or an invasion of privacy. LJ wants to take away what little privacy flocking provides.

*shows LJ two very specific fingers*

[identity profile] quatrefoil.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 09:51 am (UTC)(link)
Can you explain the Twitter and Facebook implications - I'm obviously not accross them. I suspect it doesn't apply to me since most of my posts are flocked and I don't use either Twitter or Facebook, but I am concerned about my privacy.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 09:53 am (UTC)(link)
I fully agree with you, and would have expected this to exist before it was rolled out. I fully expect it to exist very very soon, and LJ to be rather embarrassed if they have any sense.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 09:54 am (UTC)(link)
I do! I was quite excited to learn about them! They seem to be very happy hating me, so I am happy they have found a hobby they love.
ext_7906: (Default)

[identity profile] complications-g.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 09:58 am (UTC)(link)
Craziness, you're totally awesome!

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:00 am (UTC)(link)
Assuming I understand it correctly, which given the state of my flu is not guaranteed, when someone posts a comment to a journal, they can tick the Facebook and/or Twitter boxes and at the same time they post it on LJ, post it on the other forum. This includes any material quoted from the original post the comment is responding to.

I have to say that I do not know if there is any automatic link back to the post. I should find that out.

People who WANT to automatically copy across platforms can choose it as their default option for all LJ use.

What there is not, and should be, is an opt out feature to allow LJ users to say 'No thanks, I don't want people to be able to automatically go to another forum from here.'

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:04 am (UTC)(link)
Eh*, I have such a lovely time with the people who like me, I can only hope the people who don't have as nice a time with each other! And my whole flist is awesome, that's why I like it here :-)

* If you have not seen Beached Az, you may not know why I have taken to saying eh -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=606eK4abteQ
fourth_rose: (Default)

[personal profile] fourth_rose 2010-09-01 10:10 am (UTC)(link)
I don't think either that LJ are complete bastards, but I'm beginning to think that they're terminally stupid because they still have no clue what their user base wants or doesn't want...
ext_14590: (Draco's Not Impressed)

[identity profile] meredyth-13.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:10 am (UTC)(link)
Being one of the second group, not for any reasons other than that my journal is my private place to share with the people I allow there - I am amazingly miffed over this.

Because unlike DW, LJ also doesn't give you the option to 'subscribe' to interesting journals that you want to read, but don't necessarily want to give access to your own things. And frankly, trying to remember which custom privacy group to use for things is tedious. So there are people who I have 'friended' for reasons other than to allow access to my musings, and I'd prefer to keep watching them be interesting.

Also, given how they appear to have structured the settings for this (based on what I've read so far), the potential for accidentally crossposting a private entry is reasonably high. This may be erroneous information.

No - I've seen nothing to allow people to lock their journals against this. I'd also like the damned ticky boxes and 'helpful hints' to go away.

My ire may be compounded by the fact that I am actually passionately opposed to FB, in a truly violent kind of way. T I can see might have its uses - but I am so far unconvinced, and can't see why people can't deal with NOT having either connected to EVERYTHING!

Ah well, I may be a minority, but I'm an angry, annoyed and aggravated minority.

Bring on the revolution, I say!

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:12 am (UTC)(link)
Oh I agree with you so very much!

They're like a kid who is SO EXCITED because he's fixed the sliding window and only realises that nailing it open is not the best solution when mum talks him through it slowly.

I imagine by the weekend there will be a big 'Oh, yeah ... oops ...'

Apparently that moment has already come about the slashes in tags and they are fixing it as we speak. Sigh.
ext_14590: (Draco's Not Impressed)

[identity profile] meredyth-13.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:14 am (UTC)(link)
Just to add to Brammer's reply, my understanding from the information supplied by LJ in their post is that the crossposting option apparently OVERRULES any flocking or privacy settings on the journal / entry being commented on (including screening). So regardless of being flocked, someone commenting to your post can crosspost their comment (and any quotes etc) and the post will show the links to your journal. It won't open up the rest of the post, but it does make that comment and all its detail public.

If I have this wrong in any way, hopefully someone else will clarify, but this is what I understand.
ewen: (Default)

Facebook reposting

[personal profile] ewen 2010-09-01 10:15 am (UTC)(link)

Apparently there will be a link; from the FAQ:

For comments, the Facebook update will say "[Your name] posted a new comment to '[Your LJ]' at LiveJournal.", and will contain the subject and text of the comment, as well as a link to the entry.

(and similarly for reposted posts.)

Presumably if the entry was f'locked then only people with LJ rights to see it would be able to see the actual entry. But the text of the comment seems to be included which may or may not include things that might be an issue.

Having skimmed the first few pages of comments on the announcement it seems that other than the "don't mix the streams" complaints, there are two other complaints:

  • People who are annoyed that the tab order of the entry form has changed (a much bigger deal for any regular software user than many programmers believe); and can probably be fixed quickly since there doesn't seem to be any strong reason to have them before the "Post Comment" button, given none of the rest of the form is logically laid out
  • Complaints about, as best I can tell, slashes ("/") no longer being allowed in tags. For... certain fandoms this appears to be a big deal. (And I'm guessing is more likely to be reverted, as there doesn't seem to be a sane technical reason for not allowing slashes in tags -- nor was it announced as a new feature/fix.)

Can't say that any of this makes me any more inclined to renew my paid account (which expired a week or so ago) though.

Ewen

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:15 am (UTC)(link)
Allons enfants de la Patrie
Le jour de gloire est arrivé

Aux armes citoyens! Formez vos bataillons!
Marchons, marchons,
Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons.

(Have torn one shoulder of shirt to expose breast and grabbed flag!)
ext_14590: (Accio Brain)

[identity profile] meredyth-13.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:16 am (UTC)(link)
If the people (bless them) who hate you are your haters, are those of us who love you, your lovers?

Inquiring minds would like to know?

Cause, that's totally going on my resume. >.>
ext_14590: (Default)

[identity profile] meredyth-13.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:21 am (UTC)(link)
Please to be seeing other comment on this post regarding exposed breast and grabbing things. >.>

Merci, belle Dame.

or in my language ...

Hubba Hubba!

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:22 am (UTC)(link)
Oh Mere, you incorrigible flirt!

(Is a bit scared of jobs you might go for in which having shagged me would be an advantage.)

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:26 am (UTC)(link)
Oh pffft, my breasts are as nothing when it comes to Bradley James making merry with a chicken ...
ext_14590: (Fancy a Shag?)

[identity profile] meredyth-13.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:28 am (UTC)(link)
If I'm incorrigible, It's only because people keep incorriging me.

Boom Boom.

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all millennium. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

(have you 'seen' my resume? honestly, shagging you would be the highlight!)
fourth_rose: (Default)

[personal profile] fourth_rose 2010-09-01 10:29 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, but according to them, the slashes were a glitch, the FB/twitter thing was deliberate...

Let's keep our fingers crossed for the Big Oops ;)

[identity profile] schemingreader.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:32 am (UTC)(link)
You're right, this is very similar to what Google did with Buzz and what Facebook has done with some of its privacy violations. (Facebook has less of an excuse, because they create holes in the privacy settings with some regularity. It really does look like they're trying to trick their customers into revealing their personal data.)

There's a certain share-across-platforms mentality that assumes: 1) everyone on the internet is male and 2) men can't be stalked, with some 3) the internet provides people with welcome publicity for their ideas, so everyone will be OK with giving up some privacy and ownership of their own creative work. So each time they figure out a way to share more, they do it.

It's not a matter of why we use the service. What other blogging service makes it possible for commenters to choose what gets cross-posted? I am pretty sure it's the author of the original post who gets to choose whether comments go to FB or Twitter!

Re: Facebook reposting

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 10:32 am (UTC)(link)
The slashes are apparently being fixed now, so yes, you're right on that note.

And thank you! That is a wonderfully thorough explanation!
aella_irene: (Default)

[personal profile] aella_irene 2010-09-01 10:59 am (UTC)(link)
Considering the contents of my last few posts, DNW! I mean, the really sensitive stuff is locked to people I know in person, and am fairly good friends with, and I absolutely trust them not to re-post to Twitter and FB, but nonetheless!

[identity profile] quatrefoil.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 11:12 am (UTC)(link)
Hmmm. There's an interesting copyright and moral rights question there too. If you quote me on Facebook without my permission perhaps I can sue them?

Hope you feel better soon.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2010-09-01 11:14 am (UTC)(link)
Apparently everything on Facebook belongs to Facebook, according to Facebook ...

And thanks. Damn Mr B and his generous plague virus!

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