blamebrampton: 15th century woodcut of a hound (Default)
blamebrampton ([personal profile] blamebrampton) wrote2009-03-12 10:50 pm

ARGH! Vaccine rant, and I do mean rant.

It's my own fault for watching the news on the trashy commercial TV channel.

The story began reasonably enough. It told the tragic tale of a very young baby who has just died of whooping cough up in Lismore, near the idiot hippie capital of Australia. The child was too young to be immunised, and because the level of immunisation in the area is so low, she was infected by an older child whose parents had not kept his or her shots up. Not only was that original child made very ill, just like the other 3300 Australian whooping cough cases in the first two months of this year, it has killed four-week-old Dana.

Dana's parents wanted her vaccinated, but she was too young.

Up to this point the news story was quite scientifically accurate. But after clearly outlining the facts, it went on to say 'Tell that to parents like Wayne Bennet whose son suffered an adverse reaction to the diptheria vaccine, which caused brain damage.'

To which I say ... hold on a minute, sunshine.

Now you will find lots of pages on the internet telling you that the diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, (DPT) vaccine causes brain damage, just as you will find many telling you the MMR vaccine causes autism.

Diphtheria is a highly contagious disease that kills 4-10% of people who contract it and causes severe chronic illness in many others. Tetanus and whooping cough you probably know about. In the 1970s, a UK study suggested that one in 310,000 children would have a serious reaction to the DPT vaccine, and as one of the children who would have contributed to those statistics, I have to say that it's what I consider an acceptable risk. However, subsequent studies and reinterpretation of the original data all came to the same conclusion. There was in fact NO PROVEN SERIOUS RISK. Mild rashes, nausea and the very rare cases of anaphylaxis which can occur with ANY substance and which are best off occurring in a doctor's surgery or with a trained nurse armed with adrenalin standing beside you were the only reactions shown by the data.

Wayne Bennett is a famous football coach. His son suffered seizures after his DPT vaccination. He believes that it was causal. It is possible that it was. People have all sorts of strange and unique allergic reactions. It's also possible that it was a coincidence and another factor caused the seizures at a close time to the vaccine, the boy's sister has serious genetic issues and it may just have been that his were under the radar until that day, or even that the baby had been suffering smaller seizures previously that had gone un-noticed until his system was challenged by the vaccine, which led to a larger physiological response. It is a very sad event, and the family have been great, but it is a specific and individual case.

To give this single case the same weight as the entire DPT vaccination programme, which has not only delivered no proven risk of serious reaction caused by vaccine, but also demonstrably prevented hundreds of thousands of cases of diseases that have definite death rates -- quite high ones in the case of diphtheria ... it goes beyond bad journalism to being overtly unethical.

You've almost certainly heard all about the MMR--autism link, it was massively reported when first mooted. What has been less reported is that the doctor who proposed the link has been found guilty of falsifying his data. Now to begin with, the whole thing was idiot pseudo science, since the sample size was 12. If you cherry pick your sample size of 12, you can 'prove' most things. After the publication of his 'reasearch', the vaccination rates in the UK fell dramatically, destroying herd immunity. This now means that British children who cannot be vaccinated for legitimate reasons, including HIV, childhood cancer or other illnesses, are at real risk from their peers, because their parents are idiots.

When I was a young lass in the 60s and 70s, I knew one girl who died of measles and another who was severely disabled thanks to her mother's rubella. That was in England. When I travelled with dad, I met many families in India, Kenya and Tanzania who had members who had died of measles. It is not an insignificant nor trifling disease, nor is mumps or rubella.

Thanks to the vaccine, measles death rates have plumetted. In 2000, according to the CDC, 750,000 people died of measles. In 2007, with the disease wiped out in many countries, 197,000 people died of it. However, in the UK, where the idiot falsifying doctor first published, measles infection rates climbed more than 30% in 2007, and about the same amount in 2008. I do not think there have yet been any deaths, but serious complications including mental retardation are known consequences of measles itself.

Now I do not pretend that vaccines are all sunshine and roses. They hurt, they cost, and in some people, like me, they leave you feeling nauseated or headachey for days (as do most drugs, I am a big girl's blouse, as they say).

And if you are taking the rabies vaccine, there actually IS a risk of mental retardation and other brain problems because of the vaccine's ingredients. However, you only take this if you have been bitten by a rabid animal, and since you WILL DIE of rabies, most people choose to accept the risk.

Some of you may know about Jade Goody, the formerly ridiculous now tragic UK reality TV creation who is currently dying of cervical cancer. I do not have her medical records, but am going to stride out on a limb and say that her cancer was most likely caused by HPV. This virus  is the cause of 70% of cervical cancers, and the overwhelming majority of those in the young. There is a vaccine, Gardasil, that has been around for several years. In Australia, it is given free to all young women.

There have been any number of news stories stating that schoolgirls have suffered adverse reactions to Gardisil. Tell us your stories! many say. And it is true to an extent. In the years since the vaccines began there have been over 1000 Australian girls who have suffered adverse reactions. Headaches, rashes at the injection site, dizziness, nausea ... 12 cases of anaphylaxis, which were all dealt with by trained staff administering the vaccine. (That is many times smaller than the number of cases of anaphylaxis caused by bees, peanuts and shellfish, by the way.)

There have been over 3.7 million doses of Gardasil administered here. All of these women have drastically slashed the likelihood they will end up like Jade Goody. Or the over 200 Australian women who die each year of cervical cancer.

It would be great if none of those girls ever felt sick, but the possibility of a headache and nausea -- even if it persisted for weeks as some anecdotal cases have alleged (which may or may not actually have been caused by Gardasil, I crashed with glandular fever after my rubella vaccination, this was a coincidence) -- is nothing compared to the possibility of an early painful death. 

For journalists to pretend that they are providing a 'balanced' report by slipping notes such as the Wayne Bennett comment into stories on vaccination infuriates me. But my fury is nothing.

That sort of thinking killed Dana. She was only four weeks old.

[identity profile] deannawol.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:28 pm (UTC)(link)


It's not a banner, but...
Edited 2009-03-12 15:28 (UTC)

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:31 pm (UTC)(link)
You are v cool!

[identity profile] deannawol.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I'm not sure how the NHS is on the HPV thing. But they do free Chlamydia test kits, which isn't bad.

[identity profile] deannawol.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Feel free to nick, use, ignore, etc... :)

Or of course the other option, make a cooler one! ;)
potteresque_ire: (Default)

[personal profile] potteresque_ire 2009-03-12 03:42 pm (UTC)(link)
I have an aunt who collects health advices she's got from mass email, thought it was important knowledge and sends it to us. It's horrific what's being passed around; the article would be written in a very professional tone (According to Dr. X, a (insert specialist title) at XXXXXX hospital...) and usually, includes a tiny morsel of accurate science, something proven by a child's chemistry experiment.

I can't tell her to stop sending them (as well as links that says Halloween is propagated by the Devil) as she meant well and she's my aunt, and then I have to use hours to explain to my mom why the articles' contents are very dubious

Scientific knowledge changes by the day; what is accepted on any day may be proven false later - and even people in the scientific community cannot keep up with the new developments. What they know is to read all the reports with a critical (if not skeptical) eye - knowing the setup, statistics, and conditions (hence limitations) of data collection. Mass media tends to neglect to report these factors, instead jumping to the conclusion and stating it as a universally true statement; then goes ahead and discusses it in a sensational manner that further discourages any thinking from the readers' part by appealing to their emotions (look how tragic it is for the father to lose his son! the vaccine must be ev0l!!).

I really wish news can just stick to the facts - that's what I read them for; I can think and analyze what they mean by myself :(...

[identity profile] leela-cat.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:49 pm (UTC)(link)
My father chased me around the doctor's office (literally - this story became family legend) to ensure that I got my smallpox vaccine. He told me that if I didn't get it, the entire family would have to stay home.

As for your profession, no need to apologise. It's just good to know that there's at least one honourable journalist out there.

[identity profile] twistedm.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:49 pm (UTC)(link)
i know a lot of people who don't vax their kids and i do my level best to respect their opinions.

my three children have all their vaxes, though i was very cautious about some of them. the chicken pox vaccine, for example, seems a poorly thought through situation to me. (and to my family doctor.) but i couldn't find a case of the wild disease to expose my kids to, so i gave up and all three of them ended up getting that vax at about 3 or 4.

i think when a lot of smart people who care very deeply about their children are terrified of vaccines, it is a sign that we lives in times of unparalleled prosperity and safety. it gives people the luxury to be more frightened of doctors and pharmacological companies than nature. nothing used to be more frightening than the capricious hand of mother nature. now we feel we've tamed it to the point where many of us fear each other more.

i'm trying to see that as a sign of progress.
potteresque_ire: (Default)

[personal profile] potteresque_ire 2009-03-12 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)
*nods*

My university's cut off for giving out the HPV vaccine is 26yo. Beyond 26 years old you have to have a Doctor's approval and that's very difficult to get.

Why 26? I was told that that's the age the school decides every women has become sexually active for a few years, and since U.S. has about 25% of the population with the virus they figure that most women by that time has the virus and there's no point giving it to any one older... and also the medical report that tested the efficacy of the virus uses women up to 26 years old and "there are no data to support it will work for older woman".

There're so many fails in that explanation I want to go "head desk"... I am also imagining that the second after your 26th birthday there are some Pac-Man like little critters that rush into he blood and gobble up any HPV vaccine that can be found in there.. :)

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 04:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Chicken pox I can rather see. But for the others, the risks of the disease far outweigh the worries from the vaccines.

I think a lot of people who care very deeply about their children do not think things through. We do not live in a time of unparalleled safety when it comes to disease, in fact, like obesity, it seems that this generation could be worse off than the last.

Of course, this post GFC age might actually see a return to common sense all round as people stop distrusting doctors and start distrusting investment bankers and the natural order of the world is restored

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 04:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh there are lots, it's just the lunatics are myriad.

I like the sound of your father!

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 04:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I know how you feel! I am currently working on a mass market title and I spend a lot of my time saying 'But does that really sound likely to you?'

Some Halloween costumes might be propagated by the devil, I will grant ;-)

[identity profile] deannawol.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 04:19 pm (UTC)(link)
While I have to say that I laughed at the analogy, wow that's seriously bad. It is better than an 18yo cut off.

I didn't think that you needed to be sexually active to have HPV. I also didn't think that it had any bearing on whether or not you could get the vaccine. It's a vaccine, it stays in your system, buffs up your antibodies and basically gets everything ready just in case you get HPV, right?

And using the fact that you don't give it to over 26 year olds as a support for saying that there's no data is just idiotic. Governments, people, authorities, eh? Need a good twap over the back of the head!

[identity profile] bryoneybrynn.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 04:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Let me start this by saying that Ben is vaccinated. That was never really a question for me.

I will say that it's very difficult to find clear information on the topic. Unless you invest a lot of time into reading original research and have the background to understand the contradictory results, it mostly leaves you more confused than when you start. Everyone has results to back-up their position. There's all kinds of sites and articles telling you why this person is lying to you or these results aren't valid or this article only tells half the story. Honestly, I got completely fed up researching it.

I think for me part of the problem is that I don't trust the government when it comes to health concerns. When Ben was born and we discovered breast feeding wasn't going to work, we immediately went to glass bottles. It took me forever to find them, I had to import them from this place in the states. Everywhere, gov't sites were claiming plastic safety blah blah blah. The Canadian gov't had a "warning" out on certain plastics but was making no steps to remove them from the stores. And everywhere there were studies and articles showing harm/no harm. Now two years later, everyone knows about BPA and glass bottles are a dime a dozen. But the same gov'ts who are banning BPA's just two years ago were pushing them as safe.

So if you can't trust gov't health agencies, those kookie watchdog groups on the net start to seem a lot more credible. And it's hard to know when they're right and when they're wrong. Health research at uni's and gov'ts can be so tied to funding sources. It's hard to trust anything anymore.

And yes, studies up and down about the MMR and autism link not being true BUT when we had Ben assessed, the psychologist advised us to delay his 18 month shots to 2 years. She said anecdotally, she had a hard time believing there was no link. Which doesn't mean anything scientifically, I know, but there are truths that people in the field see that people in the lab don't. And we did wait for that second round of vaccines, though Ben has them all now. *shrugs*

[identity profile] rosiew.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 04:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm doing a assignment about this very topic for my research task because it frustrates me to no end the media response!

Great write up - - not only well worded but also just clarified something for me for my assigmnment! So thanks!

(Hi! I friended you a couple of days ago)

[identity profile] xenelle.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I got the Chicken Pox vax before I went to Kindy, by mistake (going by what I remember Mum saying) - wound up getting the workst case of Chicken Pox ever at 21, one of the Doctors at the only clinc open late wanted to send me to hospital I lloked so bad, and I've got random scars from it. Also my parents used to drag me and my brother around to every family friend whose kids had it to try and expose us to it while we were young.

Although I agree with everyone - if the vaxes are being offered and there isn't any proper research of extreme reactions, then get them I haven't had many bad reactions to any of them mostly just a very swollen achey arm for 3 days.

Of course this is advice from someone whose only 'child' is a kitten whose getting her shots next week.

[identity profile] shadowclub.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 04:52 pm (UTC)(link)
As someone who studies science and wants to go into medical research, stories like that destroy me. I agree, there are some risks and chances are if both parents are allergic to a drug their kid will be allergic to that too. That being said, most of these vaccines are safe for the majority of people. It would be terribly tragic to think that you caused your kid to become autistic or something, but isn't it genetic? I didn't think you "catch" autism. I could be wrong here though, that is something I definitely haven't studied in depth at all.

But at the same time you take a risk every time you put your kid in a car seat to drive somewhere. It's just hard to read stories like this and KNOW that there is a way this could have been prevented:(

[identity profile] astarael02.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 05:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree with you completely.
Parents who don't want their children to be vaccinated are idiots. I think vaccinations are one of the most useful things humans have come up with (there are loads more on the list though, obviously) and I don't see how people can put so much trust in what the media tell them, and not have a little injection that can stop you dying when you don't have to, for chrissakes! Some of the crap the media tells us, you'd think people would know not to believe everything they read. >:(
"Would you like to be vaccinated against cholera, polio, TB, and a number of other very nasty, and usually fatal diseases?"
"Oh no, certainly not! You can be allergic to vaccines. I read it in the Daily Mail. What if my face swells up?? Plus, needles hurt, and the injection will make me feel sick. Nonono, I'm much better off without those sorts of things. They don't seem healthy at all."
I say again-idiots.

I like the point about the best place to have an allergic reaction being the doctor's surgery, as well. And an injection against a kind of cervical cancer?! Do you know if this is available in the UK?? If it is, I wonder if it's one of those things the NHS won't pay for...or maybe you can only have it if someone in your immediate family got cervical cancer? Hmm.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading your thoughts :)

[identity profile] twistedm.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 05:04 pm (UTC)(link)
it absolutely must be said that we do not know what causes autism. there are credible theories that point to what is called a "genetic predisposition." that isn't the same thing as it "being genetic" like blue eyes or curly hair. and it isn't proof, either.

as for the vaxes, i'm with bryoneybrynn. the parents who don't vax, in my experience, have given the issue an enormous amount of thought. far more than most of the parents i know that do vax. in the end, it comes down to who do you trust. and indeed, if you don't feel you can trust your own government, why would you feel that the national association of doctors was any more trustworthy? in the end, i did my own research and vaccinated my children. not everyone who does their own research makes that choice.

[identity profile] astarael02.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 05:07 pm (UTC)(link)
And it just occurred to me that I shouldn't be so harsh, how are they meant to know sometimes? And now I feel bad :(

[identity profile] melusinahp.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 05:26 pm (UTC)(link)
*hugs*

I was walking Boy home from school today and another mother of an autistic child stopped to chat with me. Totally unsolicited, she said that her daughter was speaking clearly up until "immediately after" she'd had the MMR. Then she stopped completely until she was four years old.

*shrugs* I just never know what to say in those kinds of situations.
ext_7906: (**other - b&w legs**)

[identity profile] complications-g.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 05:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Ugh, ILU. ♥

The world is so messed, but I'm glad it has you.

ext_76751: (autism awareness)

[identity profile] rickey-a.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 05:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I know. So many autism discussion groups get over powered by the vaccine debate. Instead of discussing all sort of therapy modalities, teaching tools, behavior strategies, fundraising, MRI research studies, etc., folks go all capslocky back and forth about vaccines. I stay out of it and try to focus on other things. Actually I'm working on a sort of Meta about how parents can evaluate the Behavior Therapy their child is receiving and some helpful hints etc.
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)

[personal profile] azurelunatic 2009-03-12 05:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I remember my MMR. It fucking *hurt*. I wonder if some reported cases of post-vaccination weird behavior aren't due to the physical trauma, especially if someone is already prone to complete sensory overload.
jessikast: (Default)

[personal profile] jessikast 2009-03-12 05:45 pm (UTC)(link)
The sense - you speak it!

I had rubella as a toddler and mumps a few years later, so when I got the MMR injection when I was 11, it was only really to cover me for measles, but given how horrid I remember the mumps being, I'm all for people getting vaccinated for it.

The HPV vaccine - I would LOVE to be six years younger so I could get it free. Right now, I believe I would have to pay $165 for each injection (there's three) plus other medical costs. Which I really can't afford, so that sucks. (Which reminds me, I'm probably due for another pap. Gah.) I dearly hope the government starts funding the vaccine for people up to, say 25...and before I get over the age limit there too!
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)

[personal profile] azurelunatic 2009-03-12 05:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I have a mental image involving a hawk sitting on a post, and another one sitting on a propeller.

Page 2 of 5