blamebrampton: 15th century woodcut of a hound (Default)
blamebrampton ([personal profile] blamebrampton) wrote2009-03-12 10:50 pm

ARGH! Vaccine rant, and I do mean rant.

It's my own fault for watching the news on the trashy commercial TV channel.

The story began reasonably enough. It told the tragic tale of a very young baby who has just died of whooping cough up in Lismore, near the idiot hippie capital of Australia. The child was too young to be immunised, and because the level of immunisation in the area is so low, she was infected by an older child whose parents had not kept his or her shots up. Not only was that original child made very ill, just like the other 3300 Australian whooping cough cases in the first two months of this year, it has killed four-week-old Dana.

Dana's parents wanted her vaccinated, but she was too young.

Up to this point the news story was quite scientifically accurate. But after clearly outlining the facts, it went on to say 'Tell that to parents like Wayne Bennet whose son suffered an adverse reaction to the diptheria vaccine, which caused brain damage.'

To which I say ... hold on a minute, sunshine.

Now you will find lots of pages on the internet telling you that the diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, (DPT) vaccine causes brain damage, just as you will find many telling you the MMR vaccine causes autism.

Diphtheria is a highly contagious disease that kills 4-10% of people who contract it and causes severe chronic illness in many others. Tetanus and whooping cough you probably know about. In the 1970s, a UK study suggested that one in 310,000 children would have a serious reaction to the DPT vaccine, and as one of the children who would have contributed to those statistics, I have to say that it's what I consider an acceptable risk. However, subsequent studies and reinterpretation of the original data all came to the same conclusion. There was in fact NO PROVEN SERIOUS RISK. Mild rashes, nausea and the very rare cases of anaphylaxis which can occur with ANY substance and which are best off occurring in a doctor's surgery or with a trained nurse armed with adrenalin standing beside you were the only reactions shown by the data.

Wayne Bennett is a famous football coach. His son suffered seizures after his DPT vaccination. He believes that it was causal. It is possible that it was. People have all sorts of strange and unique allergic reactions. It's also possible that it was a coincidence and another factor caused the seizures at a close time to the vaccine, the boy's sister has serious genetic issues and it may just have been that his were under the radar until that day, or even that the baby had been suffering smaller seizures previously that had gone un-noticed until his system was challenged by the vaccine, which led to a larger physiological response. It is a very sad event, and the family have been great, but it is a specific and individual case.

To give this single case the same weight as the entire DPT vaccination programme, which has not only delivered no proven risk of serious reaction caused by vaccine, but also demonstrably prevented hundreds of thousands of cases of diseases that have definite death rates -- quite high ones in the case of diphtheria ... it goes beyond bad journalism to being overtly unethical.

You've almost certainly heard all about the MMR--autism link, it was massively reported when first mooted. What has been less reported is that the doctor who proposed the link has been found guilty of falsifying his data. Now to begin with, the whole thing was idiot pseudo science, since the sample size was 12. If you cherry pick your sample size of 12, you can 'prove' most things. After the publication of his 'reasearch', the vaccination rates in the UK fell dramatically, destroying herd immunity. This now means that British children who cannot be vaccinated for legitimate reasons, including HIV, childhood cancer or other illnesses, are at real risk from their peers, because their parents are idiots.

When I was a young lass in the 60s and 70s, I knew one girl who died of measles and another who was severely disabled thanks to her mother's rubella. That was in England. When I travelled with dad, I met many families in India, Kenya and Tanzania who had members who had died of measles. It is not an insignificant nor trifling disease, nor is mumps or rubella.

Thanks to the vaccine, measles death rates have plumetted. In 2000, according to the CDC, 750,000 people died of measles. In 2007, with the disease wiped out in many countries, 197,000 people died of it. However, in the UK, where the idiot falsifying doctor first published, measles infection rates climbed more than 30% in 2007, and about the same amount in 2008. I do not think there have yet been any deaths, but serious complications including mental retardation are known consequences of measles itself.

Now I do not pretend that vaccines are all sunshine and roses. They hurt, they cost, and in some people, like me, they leave you feeling nauseated or headachey for days (as do most drugs, I am a big girl's blouse, as they say).

And if you are taking the rabies vaccine, there actually IS a risk of mental retardation and other brain problems because of the vaccine's ingredients. However, you only take this if you have been bitten by a rabid animal, and since you WILL DIE of rabies, most people choose to accept the risk.

Some of you may know about Jade Goody, the formerly ridiculous now tragic UK reality TV creation who is currently dying of cervical cancer. I do not have her medical records, but am going to stride out on a limb and say that her cancer was most likely caused by HPV. This virus  is the cause of 70% of cervical cancers, and the overwhelming majority of those in the young. There is a vaccine, Gardasil, that has been around for several years. In Australia, it is given free to all young women.

There have been any number of news stories stating that schoolgirls have suffered adverse reactions to Gardisil. Tell us your stories! many say. And it is true to an extent. In the years since the vaccines began there have been over 1000 Australian girls who have suffered adverse reactions. Headaches, rashes at the injection site, dizziness, nausea ... 12 cases of anaphylaxis, which were all dealt with by trained staff administering the vaccine. (That is many times smaller than the number of cases of anaphylaxis caused by bees, peanuts and shellfish, by the way.)

There have been over 3.7 million doses of Gardasil administered here. All of these women have drastically slashed the likelihood they will end up like Jade Goody. Or the over 200 Australian women who die each year of cervical cancer.

It would be great if none of those girls ever felt sick, but the possibility of a headache and nausea -- even if it persisted for weeks as some anecdotal cases have alleged (which may or may not actually have been caused by Gardasil, I crashed with glandular fever after my rubella vaccination, this was a coincidence) -- is nothing compared to the possibility of an early painful death. 

For journalists to pretend that they are providing a 'balanced' report by slipping notes such as the Wayne Bennett comment into stories on vaccination infuriates me. But my fury is nothing.

That sort of thinking killed Dana. She was only four weeks old.

ext_7717: Lilian heart ("Which is the right side?")

[identity profile] lilian-cho.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 07:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe they reason that they are going to have the baby no matter what?

Isn't ultrasound mandatory though? (At least once during the pregnancy to confirm estimated delivery date, etc.) I only had one ultrasound myself.

[identity profile] norton-gale.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 07:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess.. though I don't know why they wouldn't want to be prepared in case there's something wrong, or if there's a risk of miscarriage. Also, there are some problems that can be fixed before birth if the doctors are aware of them.

If you're not giving birth in a hospital, I don't know if ultrasound is mandatory. I've had lots because of having multiples and because of IVF. I get the anatomical scan next week, and then probably I won't have any for a while.
ext_7717: Lilian heart (Edmund armor *looks down*)

I wish everyone's rant is just like yours <3

[identity profile] lilian-cho.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 07:34 pm (UTC)(link)
My MIL sometimes blames vaccination for her son's autism. More often, she blames her MIL for supposedly evilly not letting her use the car to buy medicine for her feverish son. Yet other times she blames her son's classmates (also special needs) for teaching him bad habits.

At one point she claims SUVs save more gas than hybrid cars in the long run. I don't even know.

She got her news from right-wing TV, mass e-mails, and her oh-so-smart American friends, so.

/end being bitter


In other news, I'm just here to pretty up your post with Skandar Keynes =D

[identity profile] mabonwitch.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 07:45 pm (UTC)(link)
The vaccine she's talking about isn't against cervical cancer, it is for HPV (Human Papillomavirus). There's a bunch of different strands of HPV; the vaccination addresses 4 common strands. Those types/strands are responsible for 70% of cervical cancer and 90% of genital warts.

I would be VERY surprised if it is not available in the UK. Here, any women under 26 can get it.
ext_7717: Lilian heart (Skandar close-up)

[identity profile] lilian-cho.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 07:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Some people are better prepared with fore knowledge, some people just freak out =D

I read that this is why doctors here avoid unnecessary ultrasounds--parents freak out when something appears to be abnormal. In Asia they do way more ultrasounds (parents cough up more money, haha).

[identity profile] glass-violet.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)
i did pause for thought about vaccinating, due to my organic hippie steiner education tendancies, but the risk of disease (both to my daughter, and to the other children whose health she might endanger) outweighs the benefits by such a margin that it has disappeared over the horizon. people will always need to find a reason for tragedy; this need to blame is what gave us god.

[identity profile] norton-gale.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
My husband and I want to know all we possibly can before the births, good or bad. Luckily my maternity care has been covered mostly by insurance.

[identity profile] jamie2109.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 09:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Good rant. I am one of the lucky ones whose mother insisted that we all be vaccinated (I was a child of the 60's). She even insisted I attend school on vaccination day using crutches when I had a twisted ankle and should have been home. (They spent all their money paying for a private school education and had none left over to pay for me to go to a doctor and have it at a later stage.) So, for me it was never a question about whether or not I had my kids vaccinated. Which worked out really well as an adult friend contracted mumps and was contagious around my kids at one point before diagnosis.

There is a lot of research around, but often in the rush to be 'published' researchers forget to ask if they should be. I've had some experience deciphering research reports (and writing them) and you can pretty much find whatever you want to. I've learned to be sceptical in every claim until I can read the whole report myself and make my own judgements on their processes.

It makes me really angry every time the mass media report 'significant correlations' because you can significantly correlate anything by asking biased questions. I'm like you in that I constantly ask 'is that likely?'

So, for me, endangering the lives of my child and other people's children without good, reliably scientific evidence is irresponsible. I do understand the debate if the child has other health issues, so I am not blanketing my opinion over everyone, but for generally healthy children there should be no question.

[identity profile] ant-queen.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 09:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I am eternally grateful that my mother persisted with dragging my kicking and screaming arse to the doctors for vaccinations as a kid (seriously, I hated needles, I was the kid that needed to be physically extracted by several people as I clung to every door frame and fixed object within reach.)

Mum even tried her best to give me chicken pox young, but despite having several play dates with poxy kids, I didn't get it. Ended up getting it ages 19 and it was not fun (though not life threatened either to be fair).

I hate how people expect every medical treatment to be side effect free. The common reactions to vaccines are the same as you're likely to get for a courses of antibiotics. Hell, I've been on immunotherapy for 5 years now and get my shots every month. I usually get some minor swelling and itching each time. The reason I do it is so I don't explode from doing things like breathing air that has mould spores in it.

Actually, that reminds me, I think I'm due a tetanus booster.

[identity profile] uminohikari.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 10:40 pm (UTC)(link)
asdfjkl; Did you know, my elementary school science teacher actually told me the 30% brain thing? I thought that was true until I took psychology in /high school/.

[identity profile] uminohikari.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
There is a reason my school and most of the schools in my area require lots of vaccines :| :| :|

[identity profile] furiosity.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I can believe it. A high school teacher told me and I didn't know any better until university. It's completely baffling how prevalent this dumb myth is.

[identity profile] abusing-sarcasm.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 11:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I ranted about this HERE.

I think the note about Wayne Bennett is a good addition to the story. Without that tidbit, there might be ignorant people who think that the only reason parents would choose not to vaccinate their child is negligence. There are MANY good reasons to skip certain vaccines, and it should be up to each and every parent to make that decision for their own child.

[identity profile] acromantular.livejournal.com 2009-03-13 01:16 am (UTC)(link)
Wow, I'm continually impressed by the failure to understand how science works. There's a nice saying that applies to this case:

"The plural of anecdote is NOT data."

[identity profile] nwfairy.livejournal.com 2009-03-13 01:31 am (UTC)(link)
Okay I might have the unpopular opinion around here, but I might as well bring it up.

I personally do not believe in vaccines. There is a reason that diseases exist. They exist to weed out the weak, young and old, and improve the genetic quality of a species. Normally this would also be the position of the hunter, but considering humans are the top of the food chain, disease is the only thing that does that job well. Some vaccines (ie polio) I can understand taking though, I'm not that cold.

My belief is that its healthier to catch the disease and have your immune system fight it off then have a vaccine, such as in the case of chicken pox. Case in point I was vaccinated for it when I was little and not to long ago I had to get the booster shot. But if I just had gotten the disease when I was little and had dealt with it I wouldn't need a booster shot because my body could handle itself. Now if my bolstered vaccine doesn't work and I get the shingles as an adult it'll be ten times worse.

I don't believe that vaccines cause autism. I have a friend with Aspgers that I've talked it over with, and she'd said basically the age of diagnosed autism and vaccines happen to occur at the same time, not one because of the other.
drgaellon: (happycat)

[personal profile] drgaellon 2009-03-13 01:44 am (UTC)(link)
BRAVO! HUZZAH! YES, THIS!

At last, a reasoned and reasonable rejection of the antivaccine idiocy, from a non-healthcare-professional!!! (Not that I expected any less from my very intelligent friend, you know.)

I am so TIRED of the morons promulgating this antivaccine screed. The same kind of bad thinking takes useful drugs like Vioxx off the market, because in hundreds of millions of doses, relieving the pain and suffering of millions of patients, fewer than 100 died of heart attack. It's just NOT RATIONAL.
drgaellon: Brian shirtless, with Justin (Brian/Justin)

[personal profile] drgaellon 2009-03-13 02:03 am (UTC)(link)
The antivaccine community has, for years, been blaming autism on the mercury-containing preservative thimerosal. However, thimerosal has been banned from US vaccines (except for influenza vaccine) since 2001. Nevertheless, the incidence of autism is INCREASING — if thimerosal were responsible, you'd expect the incidence to decline. In light of this incontrovertible fact, the antivaccine lobby is backpedaling, desperately trying to come up with an alternative explanation for how the vaccine causes autism.

I find it hard to understand parents who take their health information from blogs, drum bangers and so on.
Because they need someone to BLAME, and their personality doesn't permit them to blame God/Nature/The Universe/random chance. (I should just tell them all to "Blame Brampton"! :D )

Did you hear about the case of Dr Scott Reuben, of Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, Massachusetts? Dr Reuben was one of the pioneer researchers in the field of multimodal anesthesia — using more than one drug simultaneously to achieve analgesia with lower overall doses and safer drugs. He has managed to falsify data in at least 21 papers in at least 3 peer-reviewed journals, and possibly more, in a systematic fashion over nearly 13 years. This revelation calls into question the research underpinning of several major modalities of current anesthesia practice. It astounds me that he managed to get away with it for this long.
drgaellon: (QAF Drug)

[personal profile] drgaellon 2009-03-13 02:09 am (UTC)(link)
BTW, feel free to poke me anytime you need help translating medical or biology stuffs. (My undergraduate degree was a Scientiæ Baccalaureus in Biochemistry. And, yes, I am sufficiently pedantic to refer to my degree in Latin. :D )
drgaellon: But... what's UNDER the kilt? (Under The Kilt)

[personal profile] drgaellon 2009-03-13 02:13 am (UTC)(link)
The full quotation, from Alexander Pope's 1711 Essay on Criticism:

A little Learning is a dang'rous Thing
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring

("Learning" is usually misquoted as "knowledge." "Pierian spring" refers to the classical tradition which holds that the Nine Muses were born in the northern Greek region of Pieria.)

[identity profile] astarael02.livejournal.com 2009-03-13 02:27 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks for the info. I just looked it up and it turns out that while it is available privately in the UK, the NHS just started a national vaccination programme last year and for the moment at least they are just vaccinating girls between 12 and 18, and it will be just 12 and 13 once they've caught up. For women over 25 there are cervical screenings to check for early-stage cell changes. So being between 18 and 25, I suppose for the moment I'm not due to have anything. Ho hum. :)
drgaellon: poem by Madeline L'Engel (Patrick's Rune)

[personal profile] drgaellon 2009-03-13 02:29 am (UTC)(link)
Actually, by age 50, more than EIGHTY percent of American women have some form of HPV. In 2003-4, at any given point in time, 27% of women aged 14-59 had at least one strain of HPV; 56% of them had a high-risk strain. The trick is, only about 15 of the more than 90 known subtypes are high-risk and can cause cancer. Gardasil vaccinates against the four most common high-risk strains. (Types 16 and 18 are responsible for about 70% of all cervical cancer cases; types 6 and 11 are responsible for about 90% of all cases of genital warts.)
ext_76751: (Ack!)

[identity profile] rickey-a.livejournal.com 2009-03-13 03:02 am (UTC)(link)
I like my way better ;)
drgaellon: (SCA device)

[personal profile] drgaellon 2009-03-13 03:23 am (UTC)(link)
Look, any medical research is about statistics. It's about risks for large groups of people. Studies have shown, over and over and over, for decades (if not centuries, since Jenner developed the cowpox vaccine to prevent smallpox in humans) that vaccinating large populations prevents lots and lots of deaths from the disease... in exchange for a much smaller number of illnesses caused by the vaccines themselves. It's a "needs of the many" argument, but when you (or your kid) are the "one" who's hurt, it's virtually impossible to believe in the benefit to society as a whole.
drgaellon: Waving the pride flag (Pride Flag)

[personal profile] drgaellon 2009-03-13 03:30 am (UTC)(link)
the parents who don't vax, in my experience, have given the issue an enormous amount of thought.
My experience is the diametric opposite: most of the parents I know who don't vaccinate are sheeple, quoting antivaccine "celebrity supporters" like Jenny what's-her-name, rather than having any real idea of the science.
drgaellon: I like my men how I like my classic literature: bound in leather (Men Bound in Leather)

[personal profile] drgaellon 2009-03-13 03:33 am (UTC)(link)
As a general physician, I recommend any woman who has been sexually active should have a Pap smear every two years beginning one year after her first sexual activity, or beginning at age 25 if she is still not sexually active. If you've been sexually active, tell your doctor and get screened. (Theoretically, barrier protection — condoms — should block the virus, but I don't take that risk; I recommend screening even if you've never had unprotected sex.)

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