blamebrampton: 15th century woodcut of a hound (Default)
blamebrampton ([personal profile] blamebrampton) wrote2009-03-12 10:50 pm

ARGH! Vaccine rant, and I do mean rant.

It's my own fault for watching the news on the trashy commercial TV channel.

The story began reasonably enough. It told the tragic tale of a very young baby who has just died of whooping cough up in Lismore, near the idiot hippie capital of Australia. The child was too young to be immunised, and because the level of immunisation in the area is so low, she was infected by an older child whose parents had not kept his or her shots up. Not only was that original child made very ill, just like the other 3300 Australian whooping cough cases in the first two months of this year, it has killed four-week-old Dana.

Dana's parents wanted her vaccinated, but she was too young.

Up to this point the news story was quite scientifically accurate. But after clearly outlining the facts, it went on to say 'Tell that to parents like Wayne Bennet whose son suffered an adverse reaction to the diptheria vaccine, which caused brain damage.'

To which I say ... hold on a minute, sunshine.

Now you will find lots of pages on the internet telling you that the diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, (DPT) vaccine causes brain damage, just as you will find many telling you the MMR vaccine causes autism.

Diphtheria is a highly contagious disease that kills 4-10% of people who contract it and causes severe chronic illness in many others. Tetanus and whooping cough you probably know about. In the 1970s, a UK study suggested that one in 310,000 children would have a serious reaction to the DPT vaccine, and as one of the children who would have contributed to those statistics, I have to say that it's what I consider an acceptable risk. However, subsequent studies and reinterpretation of the original data all came to the same conclusion. There was in fact NO PROVEN SERIOUS RISK. Mild rashes, nausea and the very rare cases of anaphylaxis which can occur with ANY substance and which are best off occurring in a doctor's surgery or with a trained nurse armed with adrenalin standing beside you were the only reactions shown by the data.

Wayne Bennett is a famous football coach. His son suffered seizures after his DPT vaccination. He believes that it was causal. It is possible that it was. People have all sorts of strange and unique allergic reactions. It's also possible that it was a coincidence and another factor caused the seizures at a close time to the vaccine, the boy's sister has serious genetic issues and it may just have been that his were under the radar until that day, or even that the baby had been suffering smaller seizures previously that had gone un-noticed until his system was challenged by the vaccine, which led to a larger physiological response. It is a very sad event, and the family have been great, but it is a specific and individual case.

To give this single case the same weight as the entire DPT vaccination programme, which has not only delivered no proven risk of serious reaction caused by vaccine, but also demonstrably prevented hundreds of thousands of cases of diseases that have definite death rates -- quite high ones in the case of diphtheria ... it goes beyond bad journalism to being overtly unethical.

You've almost certainly heard all about the MMR--autism link, it was massively reported when first mooted. What has been less reported is that the doctor who proposed the link has been found guilty of falsifying his data. Now to begin with, the whole thing was idiot pseudo science, since the sample size was 12. If you cherry pick your sample size of 12, you can 'prove' most things. After the publication of his 'reasearch', the vaccination rates in the UK fell dramatically, destroying herd immunity. This now means that British children who cannot be vaccinated for legitimate reasons, including HIV, childhood cancer or other illnesses, are at real risk from their peers, because their parents are idiots.

When I was a young lass in the 60s and 70s, I knew one girl who died of measles and another who was severely disabled thanks to her mother's rubella. That was in England. When I travelled with dad, I met many families in India, Kenya and Tanzania who had members who had died of measles. It is not an insignificant nor trifling disease, nor is mumps or rubella.

Thanks to the vaccine, measles death rates have plumetted. In 2000, according to the CDC, 750,000 people died of measles. In 2007, with the disease wiped out in many countries, 197,000 people died of it. However, in the UK, where the idiot falsifying doctor first published, measles infection rates climbed more than 30% in 2007, and about the same amount in 2008. I do not think there have yet been any deaths, but serious complications including mental retardation are known consequences of measles itself.

Now I do not pretend that vaccines are all sunshine and roses. They hurt, they cost, and in some people, like me, they leave you feeling nauseated or headachey for days (as do most drugs, I am a big girl's blouse, as they say).

And if you are taking the rabies vaccine, there actually IS a risk of mental retardation and other brain problems because of the vaccine's ingredients. However, you only take this if you have been bitten by a rabid animal, and since you WILL DIE of rabies, most people choose to accept the risk.

Some of you may know about Jade Goody, the formerly ridiculous now tragic UK reality TV creation who is currently dying of cervical cancer. I do not have her medical records, but am going to stride out on a limb and say that her cancer was most likely caused by HPV. This virus  is the cause of 70% of cervical cancers, and the overwhelming majority of those in the young. There is a vaccine, Gardasil, that has been around for several years. In Australia, it is given free to all young women.

There have been any number of news stories stating that schoolgirls have suffered adverse reactions to Gardisil. Tell us your stories! many say. And it is true to an extent. In the years since the vaccines began there have been over 1000 Australian girls who have suffered adverse reactions. Headaches, rashes at the injection site, dizziness, nausea ... 12 cases of anaphylaxis, which were all dealt with by trained staff administering the vaccine. (That is many times smaller than the number of cases of anaphylaxis caused by bees, peanuts and shellfish, by the way.)

There have been over 3.7 million doses of Gardasil administered here. All of these women have drastically slashed the likelihood they will end up like Jade Goody. Or the over 200 Australian women who die each year of cervical cancer.

It would be great if none of those girls ever felt sick, but the possibility of a headache and nausea -- even if it persisted for weeks as some anecdotal cases have alleged (which may or may not actually have been caused by Gardasil, I crashed with glandular fever after my rubella vaccination, this was a coincidence) -- is nothing compared to the possibility of an early painful death. 

For journalists to pretend that they are providing a 'balanced' report by slipping notes such as the Wayne Bennett comment into stories on vaccination infuriates me. But my fury is nothing.

That sort of thinking killed Dana. She was only four weeks old.

[identity profile] furiosity.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 02:30 pm (UTC)(link)
This is why I don't read mass media any closer than I need to get the main idea.-- 'cause this kind of thing happens all the time. It's like the ever-popular "we humans only use 30% of our brain!"; only in this case it isn't just incurably stupid, it's also dangerous. D:

[identity profile] norton-gale.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 02:35 pm (UTC)(link)
The anti-vaccine thing drives me crazy. There are so many people suspicious of the medical establishment for no particular reason. On a pregnancy comm I belong to there are a number of women who refuse ultrasounds and prenatal testing due to this increasing the risk of medical intervention and possibly harming the child. They say they don't care to know until delivery if there's something wrong with the baby. I don't understand their thinking.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 02:35 pm (UTC)(link)
only in this case it isn't just incurably stupid, it's also dangerous

Alas, this could be the watchword for much of modern civilisation. And the rest of us are not allowed to slip contraceptives into their water, because, in all honesty, that would be pretty unethical, too.

[identity profile] melusinahp.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 02:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree with you. Intellectually, I agree with you 100%, especially regarding how the media feeds and promotes hysteria. (And both my kids have had the MMR, if you are wondering.)

I also know that having a child with autism makes making these choices on a purely intellectual basis a true challenge. You can look at all the research and numbers, make your decisions, and still there's that fear at the back of your mind. What if? What if I did this to my child? What if a second does makes things worse?

I have my attitude towards the situation, but I find it very hard to make judgements about parents who have different attitudes. There's so much crazy information out there and so many people banging drums loudly and hysterically. And it's never easy to make decisions about your children's future health with cold calculation. When you read a news story about 'Johnny' who was speaking in sentences one day and then virtually catatonic the day after his vaccination, it becomes very hard not to factor that story into your decision making process.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 02:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I have a friend who insists that all scientists are in the pay of drug companies and are hiding cures for cancer. When I point out that a. most scientists are barely paid, and b. I know no scientist who would prefer money to a Nobel Prize, she assures me I am naive.

It must be said that she does not actually know any research scientists.

Yes, crazy sums up my response, too. And ranting at the ones I know in real life, because it really is only overprivileged first world wankers who will happily sacrifice their and other kids on stupid pseudoscience. Why can't they just do the happy and non-evil overprivileged wanky things like organic food and Steiner schools?
ext_76751: (Ack!)

[identity profile] rickey-a.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 02:44 pm (UTC)(link)
I quite often have felt as you do in this rant today. I don't "get" people sometimes, but then again my motto is "never underestimate the stupididty of others". Obviously, being in the Autism community if you will, I encounter so many vaccine finger pointers (primarily thimersoal and MMR) and there are no conrtolled studies that show any causal or even any possible link. (of course we do need more autism reseach) It also reminds me of all the Silicone Breast Implant hoopla, yes, there was a distinct lack of data, but nothing more than scary anectdotal stories of them causing any harm. But the press glom onto it and report people's ideas as facts. It's very disconcerting. People watch the TV media (I refuse to call them reporters - they are NOT by definition journalists) anyway... people think that what they hear is true. very sad ;( So... many years later... large scale controlled studies conducted - only minor KNOWN complications (like capsual contracture or implant rupture) were found. NO shred of a link between Breast Implants and lupus, MS, chronic fatigue, etc. etc. etc. was found.
grumble
see what you started?
so yeah, I hear ya- preaching to the choir

[identity profile] deannawol.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 02:52 pm (UTC)(link)
I know that there is one person I work with who is convinced that his son is autistic due to MMR, but given the age that you get MMR at and the age at which Autism becomes noticeable, it's pretty much identical. There are entire TOWNS in Ireland who have boycotted the vaccine. And now there's a massive surge in the number of mumps and measles outbreaks amoung children and teenages and even twenty year olds... It's very worrying.

I got everything. MMR (incl. booster), BCG, Polio, Tetnus, Smallpox... Seriously, I know we were pincushions back then but we didn't get dehabilitating illnesses.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 02:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Except that every single case that massive studies in the US and UK have investigated has shown that it is never the case that Johnny is fine one day and autistic the next with only the vaccine as the difference. Never.

This is why I am so suspicious of my own industry, because we are TERRIBLE at science. I am better at science than an estimated 97% of journos (certainly that figure holds on those I have worked with). And yet I am only good enough to know how very much I do not know.

What happens is that you have writers, who are very good at writing, delivering statements on science that they do not understand, and often that science is merely a hypothesis: is there a link between X and Y? the actual scientific report will ask. LINK BETWEEN X AND Y! the news story will say.

Of course, in this case, you have Andrew Wakefield lying in the original study. He overtly manipulated data from his tiny sample size and changed anything that did not fit the results he wanted. He is now in serious trouble over the original 'research'.

I have also read that he owns the patent on an alternative measles vaccine, and wished to discredit MMR.

I suspect he is actually evil, because scientific fraud is bad, but scientific fraud for profit is unconscionable.

However, it is another example of unethical journalism, since doubts were raised right at the beginning and many many researchers have said that they did not find similar links. Massive investigations were done into timing relationships between vaccination and onset of autistic symptoms, which found no correlation. They were barely reported, if at all.

Having said that, I find it hard to understand parents who take their health information from blogs, drum bangers and so on. Every western government collects and publishes data on all these issues, it is easy to find and easy to understand.

And, most importantly, it wasn't you. Now, as always, some people are just autistic, just as some are tone deaf and some are annoyingly bombastic (that one's me).

[identity profile] melusinahp.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I have absolutely no doubt that Boy is autistic for genetic reasons. The evidence is too clear.

And Andrew Wakefield is a soulless leech preying on parents' fears.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee! In fairness to TV people, even print journalists are generally bad at science. Science is hard, like economics. I have spent days of my life on the phone to scientific researchers saying 'I have no idea what that means, can you talk me through it?'

I've been lucky in that my mags have had the funds to let me do that, and that I am good at learning and, eventually, understanding. But there are very few specialist science or medical journos out there, and an awful lot of publications who want 'health' or 'breakthrough' stories.

And then, too, the original researcher in the MMR case simply lied ... Would you prefer to take the alto, mezzo or soprano line in our choir? I can adapt ...

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes! The timing thing for ages is what all the big studies have shown; yes that child had MMR and later was diagnosed as autistic, but the symptomatic 'connection' was variously given as one day, one week, one month, one year ... under investigation all the 'connections' fell over.

It's like my rubella vaccination. I had my usual response of nausea and headache with mild fever, then fell far sicker later that week. My mad aunt declared it was the vaccine, my sane grandmother declared it was the glandular fever sweeping through my school.

But yes, none of my vaccinated friends or relatives has ever been made debilitatingly ill by any of those diseases or vaccines, whereas I lost a friend from nursery to measles and have two infertile male friends from mumps.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Agree. He is one of the few people I would happily burn.

[identity profile] melusinahp.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I also think that Tony Blair did parents a great disservice by refusing to confirm that Leo had had the MMR.
ext_76751: (Ack!)

[identity profile] rickey-a.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:08 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm a mezzo soprano with a break at high A ;P

anyway.. nods. And the thing is, w/the MMR case, like w/breast implants, the follow up stories are buried deep. They get the equivalent of a three paragraph summary on page 7.

I am a bit biased because I worked in medical devices for 15 years. I know what clinical studies look like. I know their limitations and what they often can't show. But the media is about ratings or print sales, and advertising revenue generation. The prinicples of journalism 101 are long gone. Everyone's a pundit. It's very disconcerting.

[identity profile] hollyxu.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:09 pm (UTC)(link)
If only we could make a giant banner that says, "Correlation does not equal causation!!" and smack people with it every once in a while. Alas.

As far as I know, all health professionals have to keep up with a battery of vaccinations, most of which have unpleasant side-effects. You'd think if some vaccinations were useless or dangerous they would lessen their own load, if nothing else.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Tony Blair just ended up being one big disservice ...
ext_76751: (Ack!)

[identity profile] rickey-a.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:10 pm (UTC)(link)
oh and my other motto?

"A little knowledge is dangerous."
ext_76751: (autism awareness)

[identity profile] rickey-a.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:11 pm (UTC)(link)
cuddles you :)

[identity profile] leela-cat.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Scare tactics annoy the hell out of me. Scare tactics that frighten people into doing something that can kill a child, infuriate me. As for assholes like that doctor and his so-called MMR study, I can't even be coherent about it.

Not to mention that his original study was trumpeted in headlines every-fucking-where and his debunking barely got any press at all in comparison. Lots of people don't even know that it was all faked.

I hate vaccines because I'm needle-phobic. I've still had every vaccine that has been required. Including smallpox, twice - first because there was an outbreak in the UK when I was a kid, and the booster when we went to India.

Other than momentary panic and the usual headache and low-grade fever, I was fine every time. And that reaction is far far better than getting smallpox.

Idjits.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, because 'Oh, we were wrong, it's all fine' is never a sexy story.

And your last sentences are the ones that worry me most. Citizen journalism is fine when people are reporting on areas in which they have genuine expertise, but they rarely actually do this.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:19 pm (UTC)(link)
I am ALL for smacking!

And yes, when the top doctors and scientists are vaccinating their kids, surely that should say something?

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I was not vaccinated for smallpox, and it is the only time I remember being actually angry at my father, since we went travelling through India in the mid 70s. His brother was furious at the irresponsibility.

And as to bad journalism, I could spend the rest of my life apologising for my profession and not do enough.

[identity profile] deannawol.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
That royally bites, hon. One of the blokes in work, his baby girl just got measles, she's alright but she was only 8 months, 10 months too young for the vaccine.

There's also a bit of uproar over here that they give out the vaccine to HPV free for 12-18 year old girls but not to those older, and Jade Goody has highlighted cervical cancer and the government has introduced smear tests for everyone 25+, but the poor girl who featured on the news for a couple of days was 23 and was just diagnosed with cervical cancer was too late to get the HPV for free and too young for smear tests.

In Ireland, they won't give the HPV vaccine to anyone outside the 12-18 age bracket, no matter what. I tried to get it before but was turned down, even if I paid for it. And it's not that expensive, ya know, and that's not even taking into account the relative cost of cancer treatment.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:22 pm (UTC)(link)
True, as is a barrowload of stupidity ...

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2009-03-12 03:26 pm (UTC)(link)
In Ireland, they won't give the HPV vaccine to anyone outside the 12-18 age bracket, no matter what. I tried to get it before but was turned down, even if I paid for it. And it's not that expensive, ya know, and that's not even taking into account the relative cost of cancer treatment.

That is INSANE! In Australia, I think you have to pay if you are over 21 or 25, but it's not that much. And all women have subsidised smears. I am starting to appreciate the system here ...

It's not as though you're going to stop using condoms if you have the vaccine, there's still herpes, syphillis and HIV in the world ...

Page 1 of 5