A case in point ...

[blamebrampton]

So, there we were, having a chat on a friend's LJ about the differences between the US and the UK for purposes of a self-Britpicking list, with participants from both sides of the pond and beyond and frequent diversions into baiting and comedy from all sides, and apparently it has become a source of Flocked Drama.

Consider the argument very carefully: At least one American is very upset that British people prefer to be depicted in accurate ways.

And if you can't see why that's a bit dodgy, replace the word British with any other nationality.

I don't want to overstate the case, because really, it doesn't culturally oppress us the way that some other cultures have been oppressed by this sort of thing, since we don't deeply care and we had an Empire first. And while the original source of the complaint is a preference, it's certainly not a sine qua non, and we read heaps of stuff that gets us wrong, and some of it is good and some is crap, and really, at the end of the day we still pronounce and spell aluminium in ways that are scientifically logical, which in itself is enough. But, honestly ...

Interestingly, one of my points of difference was a tendency to soap-opera-like over-reactions in fiction. Clearly I drew the line too narrowly.

AND I left off the fact that it the entire United States has been the subject of mass-brainwashing to accept caffeinated flavoured beverages as coffee. Though I see Starbucks has dropped the word from their logo, truth in advertising at last!

Comments

[rickey-a.livejournal.com]

I guess I don't think of shared history as culture. The British and US have a significant shared history over the past 200+ years (on both sides). I also don't think of socio-economics as culture either. I would definitely agree that socio-economics have significant influences on peoples lifestyles and that proffessionals with solid salaries in London share a lot in common with similar professionals in New York, and probably metropolitan areas all over the world.

I think of culture as the food we eat, holidays we celebrate and the ways in which we celebrate them, the clothes we wear, activities we participate in, art, music, festivals, etc. Sure, political views and attitudes as well do creep in there.

Because of the huge multicultural and immigrant atmosphere in various regions of the US, there vast differences from state to state and region to region. The food, vernacular, sports that are popular, entertainment that is popular, music, popular art, decor, ways in which people celebrate holidays are extremely different in various regions. Attitudes towards sex, religion, and yes, politics, vary enormously region to region and state to state. (Certainly they vary person to person, but we're talking about trends and what's popular - I get that)

I find myself wondering if what you're seeing in the 'deflowering' motif is an aftefact of author age and not American vs. British culture. Or maybe too many Jane Austen Novels. (oh wait ;P) Just a thought.

edited to add what I meant write to tie into your point: Yes, I think there is commonality between Europeans just as there is commonality between Americans. The culture of various regions and/or states more akin to the culture of distinctive European country. I see what you might call American culture more akin to European culture in that there are some common threads but overall I don't see it as a distinctive culture (and you do, that's fine) but more of different cultures and looking at the commonality, but the variances in being rather great (food, customs, celebrations, music, art, etc.).

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

Well I would consider the fact that politics in Europe are significantly to the left of US politics to be an asset of culture. Our relationship to the state is different. Our attitude to the death penalty. Carrying guns. And that says as much about who we are as people as what we eat.

There is significant variation in the UK and France in what we eat as compared to each other and within our countries but there is still a national culture. The English do talk about the weather a lot. The French do strike a lot.

And the Americans writing the virginity fics may be young and stupid but if young and stupid brits don't write it then it's still an American thing. It doesn't mean all Americans are like that but it does mean some or a lot are, depending. Not all Americans carry guns and some brits do but it's still true that Americans overall have a gun culture and we don't because we don't have discussions about the right to bear arms. It's not important to us as a whole and we don't have political discussions about it.

However, I do now know that some brits wear pants beneath their pajamas. Still an odd thing to do but it's not part of a cultural divide.

May I jump in?

[kestrelsparhawk.livejournal.com]

Edward Hall says that culture teaches us what to notice and what to ignore. Stuart Hall (no relation!) says that culture is the water fish swim in -- they never notice it until they're not in it (very free translations, but I think accurate). Taken together, the obvious conclusion is that if the Halls are right, you can identify a culture by what members of it notice and ignore, but also notice and ignore what they're noticing and ignoring.

Aggggh. I would never have been able to defend that sentence in my diss. Sorry -- will ponder saying it better. The point is that I'm suggesting that a functional definition of culture would work better than an essential one.

Hmmm... I have lots to say about this. I think I should stop before I bore everyone to sleep, and go post something on my own ego-extension.... which perhaps might find a way out of this particular impasse.