AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGH!

[blamebrampton]

Two HP questions, one polite, one ranty.

To begin with the polite:
Do HP werewolves keep their clothes when they transform, as animagi do? I can't for the life of me recall and the bookshelves are all mid-shift, with PoA under a stack of YA fiction.

To move onto the ranty:
What the HELL are some writers thinking when they write sexual assault as a consequence-free piece of erotic interaction? I can't read this shit. Because I sit there wanting to slap the author.

Note that this is not the same as saying I can't read stories that contain sexual violence. I can, and have, both novels and fic, and some have been excellent. But there is a cost for sexual violence. Hell, even Margaret Mitchell has Rhett Butler consumed with guilt in Gone With the Wind after he drags Scarlett upstairs for a right good rogering while she punches him. There is always a cost.

Why do I rant thusly? Because I have been listening to Shiv and reading the odd spot of het. But, idiotically, not Shiv's own witty and urbane stories. Here's a tip, kids. Have one more Hermione being 'put in her place' with someone's penis and it's very likely you'll find me on your doorstep holding the shattered remains of your letterbox and using them to wedge the door open while I lecture you on why this is not now and never will be a valid authorial gambit.

I am trying to work out some way of addressing this with the writer that doesn't begin with: FEMINISM, it's not just a course at university! HUMAN RIGHTS, not just a T-shirt!

I'm going to stay safely here in the happy little slightly angsty but with authorial acknowledgement that there are prices to be paid gay part of fandom, thanks. Because I will probably be arrested otherwise.

ETA: I should clarify that I am not talking about BD/SM stories, which I am actually fine with. I can even kind of live with the rape fantasy stories where she wants to be dominated (while secretly whispering "It's okay to want to have sex! And it's also okay if you want to be tied up!" at the screen). I am talking about stories where characters are intentionally sexually degraded for no narrative purpose other some alleged titilation.

Comments

[meredyth-13.livejournal.com]

Hermione does seem to be a handy target, especially in Snape or Draco fics, although Lucius gets his bit from time to time. Maybe it's the 'we don't really like smart girls, especially when they get to be besties with the heroes' thing?

I think it almost equates to the outpourings of genuine venom at the poor girl who was cast to play Cho Chang - which I thought was appalling.

There are definitely 'rape fics' which are written as expressions of sexual fantasy - and then there are genuine sexual abuse stories - and yes, I think there is a difference. I would take a lot of words to totally fail to express what I think it is - or maybe the difference only exists in my head. Who knows?

But I don't think the objection to abuse without consequence is even a feminist argument - because I feel just as strongly about it regardless of the sex of the victim. Then again, I can read the odd erotic 'rape fic' and really enjoy it. I'm not sure if that makes me a sad case or just hopelessly complex?

*hugs and offers tea and cake*

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

I hate when Hermione somehow needs to be 'put in her place' at all! Hermione is a STRONG character. She isn't a fluffy Mary Sue or a snarly bitch. She doesn't need 'fixing'.

I really do love a good Lucius/Hermione and I have a soft spot for Lucius/Hermione/Snape... but that corner of fandom is very scary place to poke your head in. Lumione is a mine field of non-con that is dealt with flippantly. ::squicks::

I understand your pain and nod to your rant.

[pingrid.livejournal.com]

Oooh, this is a tricky one. Are you talking about rape-fic-as-pure-porn, or poorly handled rape within a fic that tries to be something more? Or do you not distinguish between the two?

[raitala.livejournal.com]

A fairly large proportion of fan-fic is porn. Consequence free rape is something of a porn fantasy staple - I don't think there's much chance of that changing any time soon. It's pretty prevalent in most cross-gen fandoms, whether they are het or slash.

It makes me feel damn uncomfortable, but what can you do. It seems to be fairly deeply ingrained in the collective erotic psyche.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I am going to restrict myself to Shiv5468, who is a happy place and a sane woman. Maybe people she recs. It was my own fault for going to see if something could be all that bad. The answer is always YES!

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a human rights issue as well as a feminist issue, but the story I read today was very much man puts girl in proper place, ta-da!

It's not just you; there is a 'rape fic' style which can work as erotica and it can be a fine line, but in pretty much every case it's because there is a degree of complicity. I may not like that, but I can live with it to some degree. The sexual humiliation crap I read earlier, though ... slapping time.

I suppose the people in fandom who don't like smart girls just don't cross my path; I am SURROUNDED by smart girls of many vintages. And how could anyone not like Cho?

*Slams back tea and eyes cake warily after the creme brulee I put away for dessert*

Thanks, luv.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Not quite either. Sexual degradation of Hermione, because she has been uppity. It's not erotic, it's not doing anything interesting, it's just FUCKING RED FLAG TO A BRAMMERS! Not that you could tell that at a casual glance ... *Whistles innocently and puts down axe*

[norton-gale.livejournal.com]

Just stick to Shiv's fics if you're reading het. You'll never be sorry, and her loveable sod of a Snape is to die for. There are a few other reliable authors but their names escape me.

Violence without consequence is nothing but exploitation. I couldn't imagine writing a dark fic without showing the toll that violence takes on the people involved, attacker and victim alike.

[pingrid.livejournal.com]

Come now, don't hold back - tell us how you really feel! :D

Can you email me a link? I'd like to read it to see if I agree; could be interesing.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

You know what's funny? I discovered lumione and my OT3, through Shiv's recs on crack_broom. I just realized that I've never actually read any of her fics! o.O

I must remedy that immediately. Any recs?

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

That disturbs me enough. But I can almost live with it in the same way that I am sure there's a place for pony porn and erotic plushies.

But the whole 'This woman is uppity so we must sexually humilate her' thing unleashes my inner axe-wielding ranter. And she is very very ranty.

Rape fantasies just reek of 'you can't own your sexuality, Miss, you'll need to find a man who can sign for it' to me. Though it must be said that I toddled through Women's Lib marches and still own a purple and green T-shirt with a white raised fist inside a Mirror of Venus. Just call me unreconstructed.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yes, Shiv is my happy place. And, because of the above, so are you. I should just not read off my flist for the most part ... I should have known better.

[beatnikspinster.livejournal.com]

Question 1: Even if HP canon says they do, they don't. It's a condition caused by an infection of body fluids, not laundry detergent. ;)

Question 2: THANK YOU! Thank you! Thank you! I feel your pain/rage.

I loathe that "put in her place" attitude. And rape as romance makes me physically ill. Grrr! Especially to Hermione. She's plain and bookish and the caught in a foreign world that either condescends to, or hates, her. She makes a place for herself against all odds.

It's like people smell vulnerability and attack. No second thoughts. Has empathy become a cheesy, retro artifact, like lava lamp and black light posters?

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

All of them, but I deeply love the Miserable Bastards.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I will. You can talk me down from the ledge.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I love you so much.

Actually, in the brilliant werewolf novel I just finished (Martin Millar, Lonely Werewolf Girl) he has them keep their clothes and explains it away as a 'magical artefact thingy', but then he has a massive fashion subtext and the story is set in London, so you could hardly have naked werewolves running about everywhere.

On the whole, I think your way is the One True Way, though I may need to stray depending on canon.

[raitala.livejournal.com]

I find the whole 'you want it, you slut' school of eroticized rape very uncomfortable. I haven't read any het for ages. I imagine if it were a female character subjected by a male there would be a good chance I would be even more distressed by the whole thing.

There just isn't a warning for 'ill-considered sexual viciousness' as a rule I don't read cross-gen by anyone except writers I completely trust. But then I'm not so much one for marches as one for putting my hands over my ears and eyes and humming when confronted by anything unpleasant.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yes! She wants it if her response to that comment is "You ghastly little man, all right, I'm still going to shag you, but for that comment get down there and give me twenty minutes."

I think that would be an EXCELLENT warning. Alas, too few writers would make use of it. If only LJ allowed you to tag others' entries ...

Normally I just slap that back button, but now and then the need to rant bubbles over. I've improved, though. In the 80s I'd have T-shirts and badges made by now, and be organising a sit-in.

[vaysh11.livejournal.com]

Has empathy become a cheesy, retro artifact, like lava lamp and black light posters?

Thank you for putting the sentiment so poignantly! I mean, there was a time when vulnerability was a strength, right?

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Still is in RL.

[shoeboxer4life.livejournal.com]

1. Shoebox authors Jaida and Rave have Remus naked after transformation. If the werewolf removes his/her clothes beforehand, and if he stays in the same place, and doesn't try to tear those clothes in the middle of the night, then his clothes will still be there to change back into in the morning. But if he is wearing them mid-transformation, the clothes get torn to shreds. Pretty sure they would have done their homework. But I am not quoting canon here.

2. I think it is believable that an independent strong character (or real person) would have a fantasy life where she seeks to be put in her place or bossed around or even degraded. I don't know that I see Hermione that way, but I do see it as a possibility, depending on how she is written as an adult, that she would be drawn to a powerful man who dominated her IN BED. I think it is way OOC that she would be drawn to someone who dominated her in other ways, however.

And I think, more to your point, that this kind of domination-in-bed relationship has consequences and that a character as smart as Hermione wouldn't allow the relationship without addressing them.

Getting to some of the other commenters' points, (somewhat) complicit rape fantasies do have their place. And also, I agree with Raitala that perhaps an author has a fantasy where a smart, independent female character WANTS to be slapped around without consequences--as though the consequences would be dealt with privately and not interfere with the crazy sexin'. Not true to life, but that may be where it comes from in fic. I would be much more likely to belive this of Hermione if she has been abused in the past, or if she had a father figure who she could never please, etc. All the Snape/Hemione people WISH she had an authoritarian or absent father to make their stories more likely.

One person who does that pairing and other good het and slash pairings well is Arsenic. Here is one of her Snape/Hermiones. She finds a way to escape the "I love to be yelled at by my old, angry professor" cliche. (Not that I haven't found that particular cliche hot at times. It worked for me for a few stories and then I was done.)
http://tasteofpoison.inkubation.net/viewstory.php?sid=159

I personally prefer her gorgeous h/d Comfort Food, which I know I've seen on people's rec lists before. But her Hermione stuff and other pairings (even a very nice Snape/Draco/Harry, which I would have thought I'd never like) is quite good (if a little long at times).

Lastly--Didn't Calanthe have a reversal of power fic featuring Lucius and Hermione?

[beatnikspinster.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! :) Yeah, I think you're right, it was. I also think we cheat ourselves as a species when we fetishize strength.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

If it was straight B/D or S/M, I wouldn't have a problem. But today's read was a vampy hermione happily involved in the sex when suddenly forced into a position of victim who was then overtly degraded with no roles being played, it was all so she'd learn.

To me, that dehumanising can never be erotic.

Power play in sex is a much more subtle and complex issue and has its costs and rewards, which writers like Cal address, and address well and intelligently.

I'm probably not explaining this very well, but I should probably edit this entry to make it a little clearer ...

[empress-jae.livejournal.com]

*stuffs cookie in your mouth*

*puts you in your place*

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

PS re werewolves: Thanks! That seems the SENSIBLE way to do it. And I'll give Arsenic a go, too.