blamebrampton: 15th century woodcut of a hound (Default)
blamebrampton ([personal profile] blamebrampton) wrote2008-10-28 12:40 pm

A drive-by post on Proposition 8

I am still a mile behind on replying to the brilliant comments from many of you on elite comms (but I will get to them before I leave for Italy!), and have been buried deep in my Darkfest fic, which may yet kill me. However, I have been reading posts from a number of my Californian flist about how Proposition 8 would affect their lives, and I wanted to add another small perspective. (ETA: thanks [livejournal.com profile] daybreaq  for pointing out that Florida has a similar proposition, Amendment 2.)

Much of the literature against gay marriage treats it as some new phenomenon, a sign of the end times, or a wacky new millennial trend that should be stamped out, like bubble skirts.

This is not true. If I had time, I'd insert an essay here on the history of gay and lesbian relationships and their on-again, off-again relationship with secular and religious blessings. But instead I'll just point out that there are many, many children of gay parents out there who are in their thirties, forties, fifties and above. I 'm one of them.

I was just a small baby when my mother realised the reason her marriage to my father was falling apart wasn't just that they had bugger-all in common, it was that she actually fancied women. For both my parents, this was a relief. Mum was at last able to understand a large part of herself that had been a mystery to her. Dad didn't have to face the horrifying possibility of a heterosexual woman who found him unattractive.

Now my father was older than my mother, richer, more stable, and further along in his life's plan. When he suggested that he could be my primary carer, she agreed it was the most sensible option. But it was also the only option. Her mother told her flat out that if she had maintained custody of me, they (my maternal grandparents) would take me away from her in the courts. They meant it, and they would have won.

So I grew up a continent away from my mother. I had a jolly good time, my Dad was great and his parents were fabulous fun for a kid, and between my huge extended family and Dad's big and bolshie peer group, it was a good upbringing that made me resilient, upbeat and capable. I saw my mother most years, while Dad was alive he would fly her over when she had time, and after he died his parents helped, too.

But if I am being honest, there are times when I would have liked a mother. And there were many, many more times when my mother would have liked a daughter. However, lesbians 'didn't have' real relationships in those days. They weren't wives, they weren't mothers, ask any legislator. So I was always a daughter for the holidays, or for a long weekend, and she was a mother of flying visits and frequent goodbyes, missing more than she was there for.

My first memories of my mother, and my experience of her now, is of someone who is dreadful at relationships. Because she really is. But in between, from when I was quite young till when I was a teenager, she had a wonderful girlfriend who I'll call A. She loved A dearly. I loved A, too, and so did my Dad and my Grandparents. A was a wonderful, wonderful person. If they had been able to marry, I think that it would have made my mother very happy. I know that it would have made them both think much longer and harder about breaking up, which they did because they were both stubborn and hot tempered and because it involved calling for a truck and packing one person's belongings and then it was done, with no more effort than that, ten years dissolved and not a signature required.

Because she had just been a girlfriend, A had no rights with me at all. She stayed in touch with me for five years after she and my mother broke up, but without a sense of formal belonging, she felt embarrassed at times, as though she was intruding. I found this out after she died, if I had known at the time I'd have told her she was always welcome. But I was young and self-involved as all young people are, so I accepted her moving on and away. Because she was just a girlfriend.

If they had been married, breaking up would have been hard. It would have required thought and time and effort and they may well have resolved it was a bad plan once the initial fight had simmered down. A would have been my step-mother, someone official. She would have been someone I could have opted to live with when my father died while I was still very young, someone who could have signed school forms and been involved, I would have been 'her' child in a real sense, rather than the child of her partner.

Years later there was another woman, we'll call her B. She moved her whole life at Mum's whim and when their relationship dissolved five years later she was left in a strange country with no resources, no career, no infrastructure, and no access to the shared assets that she had helped tend through the course of the relationship. If she had been a man, her rights would have been recognised under de facto legislation in place at the time. But she wasn't a man and she wasn't a wife, so she was left in the lurch.

Last year, I watched the Australian government and opposition talk about recognition of same-sex relationships and families, and one senator stood up and said that he wanted to protect the family.

And that made me angry, because my family is a family, too. And while my mother and I might have a slightly mad relationship, it's pretty bloody good when you consider that it was forged in spite of a culture and legal framework that wanted to destroy it altogether.

These days, it's not the occasional formerly married lesbian who has children, it's a great many women who have decided to commit to a family together. And it's a great many men, too, who have to go to even greater effort. Their children deserve the legal protection that a marriage brings. They deserve to know that their family is a family, too, in the eyes of the state, so that they never need worry that the framework that spells home to them can be denied. They need to know that both of their parents will be able to pick them up from school, sign their consent forms in hospital, keep them should tragedy strike.

Voting against gay marriage is a vote against families.

Think of the children.


[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 10:26 am (UTC)(link)
Dark Matter, she's the only one who knows how it, and gravity, works.

OOOH! Now that IS interesting. And means that at least one of my friends should have contested his divorce more vigorously ...

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 10:27 am (UTC)(link)
Eh, no need for applause, just wanted to be say that not all the personal stories were on the other side of the argument.

Kes is wonderful, and she, and all those like her, deserve a far better world. I so hope they get it!!

[identity profile] snottygrrl.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 10:33 am (UTC)(link)
you are the best story teller. you should probably do something with words for a profession :D

seriously, i adore your posts ♥

[identity profile] shiv5468.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 10:33 am (UTC)(link)
I think you cite unreasonable behaviour then but that could affect the way the naughty partner is treated. Adultery does get you more sympathy. And cash.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 10:40 am (UTC)(link)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You were at my work today! We're on deadline. Chief sub and I were trying to communicate. It went like this.

CS: D'you think .... thingy, thingy, THEN thingy?

Me: Mmmmmm. AFTER thingy, thingy thingy thingy.

CS: GAAAAAH! Der!

Me: Der de der de de-er!

Other sub: You two have forgotten how to use English, haven't you?

Us: Uh-huh.

Her: Good thing you work here then.

XXX

[identity profile] pingrid.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 11:09 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, there is always need for applause when people write moving and insightful things - which means there should be more of it on my flist, not less! :)

Re: the personal stories being on both sides, it's like that argument about values and morals used in such a way as to imply that only the religious right have them. I have values and morals too, they just tend to be different from theirs. ;)

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 11:12 am (UTC)(link)
I have values and morals too, they just tend to be different from theirs. ;)

You know, I bet that most of them are actually the same. And that's the truth that some people really don't want to see. It's why I try very hard not to scoff when I meet gay Republicans, because there should be gay Republicans. Even though ...

[identity profile] lonejaguar.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 12:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Over here from [livejournal.com profile] ciroccoj's journal. I don't live in California, but the news of Proposition 8 scares me more because I find it amazing that people truly believe that allowing gays and lesbians to marry will cause the world to fall apart. My wife and I have been (legally) married for five years now here in Canada and the country is still standing.

Thank you for sharing your story. I think it's so important that people realise that demonizing gay marriage is only going to hurt more people than it helps (who is is helping, anyway?).
Edited 2008-10-28 12:56 (UTC)

[identity profile] norton-gale.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Those brave public figures who are "out" get a lot of credit for showing the world that GLBT people are everywhere, and they're not just stereotypes like effeminate men or butch women.

It bothers me how much prejudice persists today, even among self-proclaimed liberal people like my mother-in-law (whose children are named after Marx and Hegel, and believes Osama bin Laden is "innocent.") We were passing through West Hollywood (LA's biggest gay neighborhood) and she made some comment to the effect that "They're different from 'us,' they really are."

She doesn't know that I'm bisexual and I didn't tell her, although I really should have. Instead I told her that gays and lesbians are our friends, neighbors, co-workers, and family. I told her that her beloved five-year-old nephew could be gay.

"Now why would you say a thing like that?" she asked. Her surprise had a hint of outrage that was really offensive to me. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

I really hate the Them and Us mentality.

[identity profile] empress-jae.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:05 pm (UTC)(link)
oh no worries. your story wasn't sad. those were tears of happiness. anytime i hear a story about families, i tear up. good or bad. i think it has to do with the hidden dysfuntion i grew up with in my family. at this point in my life, i don't think i could tell an uplifting and encouraging story about my family from my childhood. i could tell tons of stories from when i was 23 and up, after my parent's divorce was finalized! :D

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:18 pm (UTC)(link)
That's the core question, isn't it: why are some people so spun out by the idea of happy homosexuals that they'll fight it at all costs?

It is such a strange prejudice. How can someone else's rights being acknowledged make a bigot's rights apparently worth less?

Congratulations on your marriage! Canada appears to be thriving!

[identity profile] aldehyde.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:33 pm (UTC)(link)
this is such a brilliant brilliant entry. more people need to be aware of stories like yours so they can understand how much damage something like prop 8 would cause. would you be uncomfortable if i linked this entry on my personal journal? i will totally understand if you don't want me to!

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Osama 'innocent'? Wow, that's quite the call.

I have to say that it baffles me. Why is it my business how anyone else has sex? It would be absurd to have people shunned because they like to do it standing up, but the minute you shift the gender of one partner, suddenly shagging is everyone's business. Why?

All of the people who talk about marriage being for procreation only clearly haven;t been paying attention, lesbians in my neck of town are more likely to have a baby in tow than the straight women. I have two gay male friends who have babies (and they're not with each other, so that's four boys in my circle alone). And a high number of my straight friends have had IVF, so trotting out the 'natural' argument is spurious, too.

Some say that the gays can't do the commitment. Again, in my peer group alone, two of the three longest relationships are same-sex. Some say that the Bible says NO, in fact it mentions sodomy a handful of times and all in the context of abusive sexual behaviour, while it encourages loving relationships hundreds of times, and never once gives limits on what a loving relationship is.

The 'different' argument may be the most baffling of all. Should we then shun gingers? The left handed? People who think Cathy is funny? (well, maybe that last).

It just always comes back to these people can have human rights, and those can't. Like you, I just find this incomprehensible.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Feel free to link away. I wanted to write it down because so often the opposite case is presented as a 'pro-children' case, which is ridiculous. Public entries here are always public, and I'm happy to have anyone read this. XXX

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, I see, you're like me with animal stories. I have banned myself from watching Animal rescue.

You being so bloody cool when you had to raise yourself is pretty uplifting!

[identity profile] norton-gale.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:44 pm (UTC)(link)
I think we should shun people who think Cathy is funny, or perhaps institutionalize them for their own good. And left handed people are sinister. ;)


It all comes down to - you guessed it - homophobia. There is no other reason to justify why marriage should be between a man and a woman. I looked through the Yes on 8 site for a compelling argument in favor, and couldn't find one. I also don't understand how allowing same-sex couples to marry damages the institution of marriage; if anything, it enhances it.

[identity profile] empress-jae.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:44 pm (UTC)(link)
oh don't even get me started with animal rescue shows. i'm a big blubbering mess. animal planet is banned from my house.

and i think i worded my dysfunction wrong. basically i have daddy issues. and i can't think of any uplifting family stories until after my dad walked out on my mom. the uplifting moments were made by me, my mom and my sister. i'm sure there are some with the 4 of us (christmases, thanksgivings, etc.) but there's really hazy and blurry to me right now. :/

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:46 pm (UTC)(link)
If people are really concerned about damage to the institution of marriage, they should be restricting access to it for straight people. I weep at some of the ones I have seen!

You and your classical jokes ;-)

[identity profile] norton-gale.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Gay divorce... a boon for lawyers! C'mon voters, we need the work! Have a heart!

[identity profile] norton-gale.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I thought you might appreciate my attempt at cleverness. ;)

When Massachusetts legalized gay marriage, a partner at my old firm said ruefully, "If gay people really want to get married... well, welcome to the club!" (He and his wife don't live together, for the most part).

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 01:54 pm (UTC)(link)
In that case I am sending you some of my amusing and fun dad vibes, since I have excess. Dad once looked down at me and said, 'Remember, you'll need to be smart and a bit sarcastic, because you're so little and cute!' You can have that bit of love if you'd like it (I already knew it when he told me ;-)

[identity profile] empress-jae.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 02:01 pm (UTC)(link)
that's fantastic! my dad never said stuff like that to me, and i grew up thinking he was never proud of me. well...no, i take that back. there was the time that he told me he was thrilled that i made varsity field hockey. because the boys would now know to stay the hell away from me because i knew how to swing a stick and could break a bone.

[identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 02:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee, yes, exactly! You would think that wedding planners would be militant supporters of keeping it, thought ...
ext_76751: (Default)

[identity profile] rickey-a.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 03:28 pm (UTC)(link)
nods, me too obviously. I pass a couple "yes on 8" signs on the way to school and I want to have the kids accidentally trip over them and knock them down (hmmm), but there's also "no signs" in the neighborhood too. The other good thing is that Apple and Google each donated "BIG" money recently to the No campaign. All hail the church of Apple ;p and Google ministry;)

[identity profile] shiv5468.livejournal.com 2008-10-28 07:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Think of the lawyers!

A much better slogan than think of the children.

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