A drive-by post on Proposition 8
Oct. 28th, 2008 12:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I am still a mile behind on replying to the brilliant comments from many of you on elite comms (but I will get to them before I leave for Italy!), and have been buried deep in my Darkfest fic, which may yet kill me. However, I have been reading posts from a number of my Californian flist about how Proposition 8 would affect their lives, and I wanted to add another small perspective. (ETA: thanks
daybreaq for pointing out that Florida has a similar proposition, Amendment 2.)
Much of the literature against gay marriage treats it as some new phenomenon, a sign of the end times, or a wacky new millennial trend that should be stamped out, like bubble skirts.
This is not true. If I had time, I'd insert an essay here on the history of gay and lesbian relationships and their on-again, off-again relationship with secular and religious blessings. But instead I'll just point out that there are many, many children of gay parents out there who are in their thirties, forties, fifties and above. I 'm one of them.
I was just a small baby when my mother realised the reason her marriage to my father was falling apart wasn't just that they had bugger-all in common, it was that she actually fancied women. For both my parents, this was a relief. Mum was at last able to understand a large part of herself that had been a mystery to her. Dad didn't have to face the horrifying possibility of a heterosexual woman who found him unattractive.
Now my father was older than my mother, richer, more stable, and further along in his life's plan. When he suggested that he could be my primary carer, she agreed it was the most sensible option. But it was also the only option. Her mother told her flat out that if she had maintained custody of me, they (my maternal grandparents) would take me away from her in the courts. They meant it, and they would have won.
So I grew up a continent away from my mother. I had a jolly good time, my Dad was great and his parents were fabulous fun for a kid, and between my huge extended family and Dad's big and bolshie peer group, it was a good upbringing that made me resilient, upbeat and capable. I saw my mother most years, while Dad was alive he would fly her over when she had time, and after he died his parents helped, too.
But if I am being honest, there are times when I would have liked a mother. And there were many, many more times when my mother would have liked a daughter. However, lesbians 'didn't have' real relationships in those days. They weren't wives, they weren't mothers, ask any legislator. So I was always a daughter for the holidays, or for a long weekend, and she was a mother of flying visits and frequent goodbyes, missing more than she was there for.
My first memories of my mother, and my experience of her now, is of someone who is dreadful at relationships. Because she really is. But in between, from when I was quite young till when I was a teenager, she had a wonderful girlfriend who I'll call A. She loved A dearly. I loved A, too, and so did my Dad and my Grandparents. A was a wonderful, wonderful person. If they had been able to marry, I think that it would have made my mother very happy. I know that it would have made them both think much longer and harder about breaking up, which they did because they were both stubborn and hot tempered and because it involved calling for a truck and packing one person's belongings and then it was done, with no more effort than that, ten years dissolved and not a signature required.
Because she had just been a girlfriend, A had no rights with me at all. She stayed in touch with me for five years after she and my mother broke up, but without a sense of formal belonging, she felt embarrassed at times, as though she was intruding. I found this out after she died, if I had known at the time I'd have told her she was always welcome. But I was young and self-involved as all young people are, so I accepted her moving on and away. Because she was just a girlfriend.
If they had been married, breaking up would have been hard. It would have required thought and time and effort and they may well have resolved it was a bad plan once the initial fight had simmered down. A would have been my step-mother, someone official. She would have been someone I could have opted to live with when my father died while I was still very young, someone who could have signed school forms and been involved, I would have been 'her' child in a real sense, rather than the child of her partner.
Years later there was another woman, we'll call her B. She moved her whole life at Mum's whim and when their relationship dissolved five years later she was left in a strange country with no resources, no career, no infrastructure, and no access to the shared assets that she had helped tend through the course of the relationship. If she had been a man, her rights would have been recognised under de facto legislation in place at the time. But she wasn't a man and she wasn't a wife, so she was left in the lurch.
Last year, I watched the Australian government and opposition talk about recognition of same-sex relationships and families, and one senator stood up and said that he wanted to protect the family.
And that made me angry, because my family is a family, too. And while my mother and I might have a slightly mad relationship, it's pretty bloody good when you consider that it was forged in spite of a culture and legal framework that wanted to destroy it altogether.
These days, it's not the occasional formerly married lesbian who has children, it's a great many women who have decided to commit to a family together. And it's a great many men, too, who have to go to even greater effort. Their children deserve the legal protection that a marriage brings. They deserve to know that their family is a family, too, in the eyes of the state, so that they never need worry that the framework that spells home to them can be denied. They need to know that both of their parents will be able to pick them up from school, sign their consent forms in hospital, keep them should tragedy strike.
Voting against gay marriage is a vote against families.
Think of the children.
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
Much of the literature against gay marriage treats it as some new phenomenon, a sign of the end times, or a wacky new millennial trend that should be stamped out, like bubble skirts.
This is not true. If I had time, I'd insert an essay here on the history of gay and lesbian relationships and their on-again, off-again relationship with secular and religious blessings. But instead I'll just point out that there are many, many children of gay parents out there who are in their thirties, forties, fifties and above. I 'm one of them.
I was just a small baby when my mother realised the reason her marriage to my father was falling apart wasn't just that they had bugger-all in common, it was that she actually fancied women. For both my parents, this was a relief. Mum was at last able to understand a large part of herself that had been a mystery to her. Dad didn't have to face the horrifying possibility of a heterosexual woman who found him unattractive.
Now my father was older than my mother, richer, more stable, and further along in his life's plan. When he suggested that he could be my primary carer, she agreed it was the most sensible option. But it was also the only option. Her mother told her flat out that if she had maintained custody of me, they (my maternal grandparents) would take me away from her in the courts. They meant it, and they would have won.
So I grew up a continent away from my mother. I had a jolly good time, my Dad was great and his parents were fabulous fun for a kid, and between my huge extended family and Dad's big and bolshie peer group, it was a good upbringing that made me resilient, upbeat and capable. I saw my mother most years, while Dad was alive he would fly her over when she had time, and after he died his parents helped, too.
But if I am being honest, there are times when I would have liked a mother. And there were many, many more times when my mother would have liked a daughter. However, lesbians 'didn't have' real relationships in those days. They weren't wives, they weren't mothers, ask any legislator. So I was always a daughter for the holidays, or for a long weekend, and she was a mother of flying visits and frequent goodbyes, missing more than she was there for.
My first memories of my mother, and my experience of her now, is of someone who is dreadful at relationships. Because she really is. But in between, from when I was quite young till when I was a teenager, she had a wonderful girlfriend who I'll call A. She loved A dearly. I loved A, too, and so did my Dad and my Grandparents. A was a wonderful, wonderful person. If they had been able to marry, I think that it would have made my mother very happy. I know that it would have made them both think much longer and harder about breaking up, which they did because they were both stubborn and hot tempered and because it involved calling for a truck and packing one person's belongings and then it was done, with no more effort than that, ten years dissolved and not a signature required.
Because she had just been a girlfriend, A had no rights with me at all. She stayed in touch with me for five years after she and my mother broke up, but without a sense of formal belonging, she felt embarrassed at times, as though she was intruding. I found this out after she died, if I had known at the time I'd have told her she was always welcome. But I was young and self-involved as all young people are, so I accepted her moving on and away. Because she was just a girlfriend.
If they had been married, breaking up would have been hard. It would have required thought and time and effort and they may well have resolved it was a bad plan once the initial fight had simmered down. A would have been my step-mother, someone official. She would have been someone I could have opted to live with when my father died while I was still very young, someone who could have signed school forms and been involved, I would have been 'her' child in a real sense, rather than the child of her partner.
Years later there was another woman, we'll call her B. She moved her whole life at Mum's whim and when their relationship dissolved five years later she was left in a strange country with no resources, no career, no infrastructure, and no access to the shared assets that she had helped tend through the course of the relationship. If she had been a man, her rights would have been recognised under de facto legislation in place at the time. But she wasn't a man and she wasn't a wife, so she was left in the lurch.
Last year, I watched the Australian government and opposition talk about recognition of same-sex relationships and families, and one senator stood up and said that he wanted to protect the family.
And that made me angry, because my family is a family, too. And while my mother and I might have a slightly mad relationship, it's pretty bloody good when you consider that it was forged in spite of a culture and legal framework that wanted to destroy it altogether.
These days, it's not the occasional formerly married lesbian who has children, it's a great many women who have decided to commit to a family together. And it's a great many men, too, who have to go to even greater effort. Their children deserve the legal protection that a marriage brings. They deserve to know that their family is a family, too, in the eyes of the state, so that they never need worry that the framework that spells home to them can be denied. They need to know that both of their parents will be able to pick them up from school, sign their consent forms in hospital, keep them should tragedy strike.
Voting against gay marriage is a vote against families.
Think of the children.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 02:49 am (UTC)very well said. and thank you for that slice of your life. i think if more people heard stories like this, there wouldn't be any issues of who should and shouldn't marry. well...one would hope.
and i apoligize for the icon. it's the best i got. it's either this or explicit boysex in regards to my gay icons. ;)
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 07:35 am (UTC)No need for tears, I had a great childhood for the most part, Mum had by far the worst part of the deal. But the general level of unfairness is a major factor in why J and I have never married: we have friends who have been together even longer than we have who don't have the choice just because they're the same gender. XXX
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 02:55 am (UTC)*hugs*
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 07:42 am (UTC)Don't mistake me, my Dad was a great father and I would probably have strangled my Mum at some point if I'd lived with her full time, but I do think that a lot of the things that have made her life hard would have disappeared if she had been someone who had proper human rights in all aspects of her life. The fact that her mother was happy to insist she didn't was ... hard.
At the evil grandmother's funeral, Mum cried to me that she had always fallen short in her mother's eyes. 'Yes,' I replied, 'but she was an idiot. Why are you being upset by an idiot just because she was related to you?' When she stopped laughing at my bare-faced cheek, she admitted it was a good point.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 02:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 07:43 am (UTC)I do love my flist ...
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 02:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 07:55 am (UTC)Years ago I had a chat with the leading gay activist at my university, who was curious as to why I spent so much time hanging out with the lesbians but seemed to usually have a boyfriend. I told him that it was a lifelong habit and gave a potted history. 'But ... but you're so normal,' he said. 'Yes, of course!' I replied, and he laughed.
I've had the same conversation many times since with a lot of anti-gay activists. They don't tend to laugh, but sometimes they think, and that's reason enough to keep having the conversation.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 02:57 am (UTC)Would you mind if I linked to you from my other lj? Not this one, as my flist would make it pretty much preaching to the choir ;) but my other one, with RL friends and family who sometimes really don't seem to get the kind of thing you're talking about here.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 03:01 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 02:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 07:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 03:07 am (UTC)My mum's mother was a lesbian (she died a few years ago) and I only found out after she was gone, recently-ish, and my mum never talks about her childhood much. She and her brother stayed with their mum, and they had a pretty hard time growing up. (They were born in the 60s.)
The 'family' excuse really pisses me off so much. They don't say single parent households aren't families, even though they don't have a mother and a father around, so why should gay and lesbian households be any different?
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:05 am (UTC)Well done your grandmother, though! How much fortitude she must have had to raise her children in those years! My mother's family were so against her that it was just untenable. Ironically my father's family didn't give a fig who she liked to shag and has dozens of confirmed bachelors and more than a few 'aunties' in the collection. She got the wrong set of parents!
I'm sorry that your mum had to deal with the fallout, though. Mum sent me off with Dad so I could avoid it with her family. Because apparently bitter and malevolent was a fine family value, unlike gay ...
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 03:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 04:29 am (UTC)I could tell the person on the other side of the phone was dying to report me to the bishop. LOL
Live and let live.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 03:37 am (UTC)Anyway, thank you for sharing your story, it's sad that you missed out on so much.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:14 am (UTC)And I should say that while I missed out on some things, I had many other great childhood experiences and was (and am) on the whole quite happy! I turned out reasonably well, at any rate!
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 04:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 04:26 am (UTC)Thanks for sharing darling.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:26 am (UTC)You're very welcome, thanks for reading. XX
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 04:42 am (UTC)He says with appropriate rage at the far right-- what about my kid?
I highly recommend his two books about his family. One is The Kid: What Happened When My Boyfriend and I Decided to Adopt.
The second is calledThe Commitment: Love, Sex, and my Family.
It chronicles the year leading up to his and his boyfriend's tenth anniversary, and their waffling ideas about whether to get married or not. The adoption already happened six years previous. Dan's Catholic mother is pushing for it, their six year old son doesn't think men can get married, and the boyfriend doesn't want to act like straight people.
This is a very entertaining, and yet powerfully persuasive narrative--only a person made of ice could read it and not feel ashamed of a stance that denies the right of a secure and happy union to all families, however they are composed.
Thank you very much for sharing your own story. It is very moving and I think personal examples are very important for people to hear.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:40 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 04:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:47 am (UTC)If people are genuinely concerned for the sanctity of marriage, then make it harder for straight people so they think about it longer and there are fewer divorces!
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 05:03 am (UTC)I really despise that the US is so screwed up right now. *sigh*
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 06:29 am (UTC)WORD!
*hugs*
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 09:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 06:42 am (UTC)Not that I wouldn't have done that anyway, because Prop 8 is stupid, but just saying.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 09:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 07:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 09:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 09:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:29 am (UTC)I'm not married and I never will marry. But that's my personal decision. First, we need the acceptance that everyone has the right to marry, because, like you said, it's about making it officially accepted. After that, we can fight that every form of bond - official or unofficial - has the right to be accepted and acknowledged.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 09:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 09:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 08:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 09:41 am (UTC)I can't help thinking that, were there to be a god, he or she would have more important things to worry about than gay marriage. Would that his followers did, too.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 09:42 am (UTC)Kes did a couple of posts a while back from the lesbian stepmother's perspective, and that's when I actually first realised exactly how atrocious some of the US laws are. Yes, I live in a protected little bubble, why do you ask? :) It just amazes me how stupid and malicious so MANY people are. In 2008. *retch*
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 10:27 am (UTC)Kes is wonderful, and she, and all those like her, deserve a far better world. I so hope they get it!!
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 10:33 am (UTC)seriously, i adore your posts ♥
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 10:40 am (UTC)CS: D'you think .... thingy, thingy, THEN thingy?
Me: Mmmmmm. AFTER thingy, thingy thingy thingy.
CS: GAAAAAH! Der!
Me: Der de der de de-er!
Other sub: You two have forgotten how to use English, haven't you?
Us: Uh-huh.
Her: Good thing you work here then.
XXX
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 12:54 pm (UTC)Thank you for sharing your story. I think it's so important that people realise that demonizing gay marriage is only going to hurt more people than it helps (who is is helping, anyway?).
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 01:18 pm (UTC)It is such a strange prejudice. How can someone else's rights being acknowledged make a bigot's rights apparently worth less?
Congratulations on your marriage! Canada appears to be thriving!
no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 01:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-28 01:37 pm (UTC)