blamebrampton: 15th century woodcut of a hound (Default)
[personal profile] blamebrampton
I am still a mile behind on replying to the brilliant comments from many of you on elite comms (but I will get to them before I leave for Italy!), and have been buried deep in my Darkfest fic, which may yet kill me. However, I have been reading posts from a number of my Californian flist about how Proposition 8 would affect their lives, and I wanted to add another small perspective. (ETA: thanks [livejournal.com profile] daybreaq  for pointing out that Florida has a similar proposition, Amendment 2.)

Much of the literature against gay marriage treats it as some new phenomenon, a sign of the end times, or a wacky new millennial trend that should be stamped out, like bubble skirts.

This is not true. If I had time, I'd insert an essay here on the history of gay and lesbian relationships and their on-again, off-again relationship with secular and religious blessings. But instead I'll just point out that there are many, many children of gay parents out there who are in their thirties, forties, fifties and above. I 'm one of them.

I was just a small baby when my mother realised the reason her marriage to my father was falling apart wasn't just that they had bugger-all in common, it was that she actually fancied women. For both my parents, this was a relief. Mum was at last able to understand a large part of herself that had been a mystery to her. Dad didn't have to face the horrifying possibility of a heterosexual woman who found him unattractive.

Now my father was older than my mother, richer, more stable, and further along in his life's plan. When he suggested that he could be my primary carer, she agreed it was the most sensible option. But it was also the only option. Her mother told her flat out that if she had maintained custody of me, they (my maternal grandparents) would take me away from her in the courts. They meant it, and they would have won.

So I grew up a continent away from my mother. I had a jolly good time, my Dad was great and his parents were fabulous fun for a kid, and between my huge extended family and Dad's big and bolshie peer group, it was a good upbringing that made me resilient, upbeat and capable. I saw my mother most years, while Dad was alive he would fly her over when she had time, and after he died his parents helped, too.

But if I am being honest, there are times when I would have liked a mother. And there were many, many more times when my mother would have liked a daughter. However, lesbians 'didn't have' real relationships in those days. They weren't wives, they weren't mothers, ask any legislator. So I was always a daughter for the holidays, or for a long weekend, and she was a mother of flying visits and frequent goodbyes, missing more than she was there for.

My first memories of my mother, and my experience of her now, is of someone who is dreadful at relationships. Because she really is. But in between, from when I was quite young till when I was a teenager, she had a wonderful girlfriend who I'll call A. She loved A dearly. I loved A, too, and so did my Dad and my Grandparents. A was a wonderful, wonderful person. If they had been able to marry, I think that it would have made my mother very happy. I know that it would have made them both think much longer and harder about breaking up, which they did because they were both stubborn and hot tempered and because it involved calling for a truck and packing one person's belongings and then it was done, with no more effort than that, ten years dissolved and not a signature required.

Because she had just been a girlfriend, A had no rights with me at all. She stayed in touch with me for five years after she and my mother broke up, but without a sense of formal belonging, she felt embarrassed at times, as though she was intruding. I found this out after she died, if I had known at the time I'd have told her she was always welcome. But I was young and self-involved as all young people are, so I accepted her moving on and away. Because she was just a girlfriend.

If they had been married, breaking up would have been hard. It would have required thought and time and effort and they may well have resolved it was a bad plan once the initial fight had simmered down. A would have been my step-mother, someone official. She would have been someone I could have opted to live with when my father died while I was still very young, someone who could have signed school forms and been involved, I would have been 'her' child in a real sense, rather than the child of her partner.

Years later there was another woman, we'll call her B. She moved her whole life at Mum's whim and when their relationship dissolved five years later she was left in a strange country with no resources, no career, no infrastructure, and no access to the shared assets that she had helped tend through the course of the relationship. If she had been a man, her rights would have been recognised under de facto legislation in place at the time. But she wasn't a man and she wasn't a wife, so she was left in the lurch.

Last year, I watched the Australian government and opposition talk about recognition of same-sex relationships and families, and one senator stood up and said that he wanted to protect the family.

And that made me angry, because my family is a family, too. And while my mother and I might have a slightly mad relationship, it's pretty bloody good when you consider that it was forged in spite of a culture and legal framework that wanted to destroy it altogether.

These days, it's not the occasional formerly married lesbian who has children, it's a great many women who have decided to commit to a family together. And it's a great many men, too, who have to go to even greater effort. Their children deserve the legal protection that a marriage brings. They deserve to know that their family is a family, too, in the eyes of the state, so that they never need worry that the framework that spells home to them can be denied. They need to know that both of their parents will be able to pick them up from school, sign their consent forms in hospital, keep them should tragedy strike.

Voting against gay marriage is a vote against families.

Think of the children.


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Date: 2008-10-28 02:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] empress-jae.livejournal.com
*wipes tears*

very well said. and thank you for that slice of your life. i think if more people heard stories like this, there wouldn't be any issues of who should and shouldn't marry. well...one would hope.

and i apoligize for the icon. it's the best i got. it's either this or explicit boysex in regards to my gay icons. ;)

Date: 2008-10-28 07:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Both would work well!

No need for tears, I had a great childhood for the most part, Mum had by far the worst part of the deal. But the general level of unfairness is a major factor in why J and I have never married: we have friends who have been together even longer than we have who don't have the choice just because they're the same gender. XXX

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Date: 2008-10-28 02:55 am (UTC)
ext_76751: (Default)
From: [identity profile] rickey-a.livejournal.com
Thanks for sharing, love. It's not easy to be fair and honest at an introspective hindsight view of your life, but I think you have done so here. Of course, you're preaching to the choir here on LJ. I've tried over the past few weeks to insert my "I'm voting no on 8" speech with my RL school age kids moms friends w/out being to overbearing. It's these middle ground people who need to think long and hard for they will decided this here in Cali. Folks like me will vote no, the religious right will vote yes, and somewhere in between these average middle of the roaders are going to make a very big decision.

*hugs*

Date: 2008-10-28 07:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Yes, I did think that it was all wasted on my flist ;-) But anyone who has a relative or friend who just doesn't see the full implications of the rhetoric is welcome to send them here.

Don't mistake me, my Dad was a great father and I would probably have strangled my Mum at some point if I'd lived with her full time, but I do think that a lot of the things that have made her life hard would have disappeared if she had been someone who had proper human rights in all aspects of her life. The fact that her mother was happy to insist she didn't was ... hard.

At the evil grandmother's funeral, Mum cried to me that she had always fallen short in her mother's eyes. 'Yes,' I replied, 'but she was an idiot. Why are you being upset by an idiot just because she was related to you?' When she stopped laughing at my bare-faced cheek, she admitted it was a good point.

Date: 2008-10-28 02:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciel-vert.livejournal.com
Your point was beautifully articulated and I agree whole-heartedly. Thank you for sharing your story. I only wish those who support Prop 8 would read such essays and have their minds changed.

Date: 2008-10-28 07:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Yes, I smiled at myself as I was writing, since my flist is probably one of the least necessary places to point any of this out. But I thought it could be helpful for anyone collecting stories to point out to relatives.

I do love my flist ...

Date: 2008-10-28 02:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] norton-gale.livejournal.com
I'm going to bed right now (it's almost 11 pm here), but will comment officially tomorrow when I'm more awake. I feel very strongly about this issue and do not understand why anyone would be opposed to gay marriage - aka the official legitimization of gay relationships. And what kills me is that these people are so upset about their children learning that gay people can marry: as though "the gay agenda" (basically to end prejudice against gays and allow them equal rights) is something immoral and distasteful.

Date: 2008-10-28 07:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
I love the 'gay agenda' icons that people have, things like human rights, love, tomatoes ... What I have found really inspiring during my lifetime is the actions of GLBT activists and individuals who have stood up publicly, even when it was against their private interests. Judges, athletes, politicians, priests, butchers, bakers, actors, artists ... every one of them says 'I am normal, this is what normal is.'

Years ago I had a chat with the leading gay activist at my university, who was curious as to why I spent so much time hanging out with the lesbians but seemed to usually have a boyfriend. I told him that it was a lifelong habit and gave a potted history. 'But ... but you're so normal,' he said. 'Yes, of course!' I replied, and he laughed.

I've had the same conversation many times since with a lot of anti-gay activists. They don't tend to laugh, but sometimes they think, and that's reason enough to keep having the conversation.

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Date: 2008-10-28 02:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] annafugazzi.livejournal.com
Thank you.

Would you mind if I linked to you from my other lj? Not this one, as my flist would make it pretty much preaching to the choir ;) but my other one, with RL friends and family who sometimes really don't seem to get the kind of thing you're talking about here.

Date: 2008-10-28 03:01 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
That would be fine! All my public entries are, well, public. (It's me, anonymous because I am at my desk and not logging in, but you can tell from the crazy punctuation ;-)

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Date: 2008-10-28 02:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leela-cat.livejournal.com
Thank you!

Date: 2008-10-28 07:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
You are very welcome!

Date: 2008-10-28 03:07 am (UTC)
ext_7906: (other - <3)
From: [identity profile] complications-g.livejournal.com
Thank you so much for writing about this.

My mum's mother was a lesbian (she died a few years ago) and I only found out after she was gone, recently-ish, and my mum never talks about her childhood much. She and her brother stayed with their mum, and they had a pretty hard time growing up. (They were born in the 60s.)

The 'family' excuse really pisses me off so much. They don't say single parent households aren't families, even though they don't have a mother and a father around, so why should gay and lesbian households be any different?

Date: 2008-10-28 08:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Oh dear, I'm roughly contemporaneous with your mum. (Weeps briefly ;-)

Well done your grandmother, though! How much fortitude she must have had to raise her children in those years! My mother's family were so against her that it was just untenable. Ironically my father's family didn't give a fig who she liked to shag and has dozens of confirmed bachelors and more than a few 'aunties' in the collection. She got the wrong set of parents!

I'm sorry that your mum had to deal with the fallout, though. Mum sent me off with Dad so I could avoid it with her family. Because apparently bitter and malevolent was a fine family value, unlike gay ...

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Date: 2008-10-28 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pir8fancier.livejournal.com
I am on tenterhooks regarding this proposition (living in California). It takes all my willpower not to run my car over the Yes on 8 placard on my neighbors front lawn (as they are Mormon and the Mormon church has donated $6 million dollars to this effort). WORD!

Date: 2008-10-28 04:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] winstonmom.livejournal.com
I am Mormon and when they called to ask about putting a sign on my yard I told them nope!
I could tell the person on the other side of the phone was dying to report me to the bishop. LOL
Live and let live.

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Date: 2008-10-28 03:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jamie2109.livejournal.com
My uncle (dad's brother) left a ten year marriage and three children because he realised he was gay. That was 25 years ago and has been with the same partner ever since. They both missed out on so much with his children because her parents are very 'religious' and fought him having much access to them in case he infected them with his illness. Until they were old enough to forge their own relationship with him and his partner, the kids saw him at birthdays and Christmases and such. It's much better now but children shouldn't be made to miss out on experiencing a wonderfully committed working relationship. Their mother married again, had more children and separated and divorced again. Yet she is a better parent than my uncle who has been in the one monogamous relationship for over 25 years. Makes no sense to me.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your story, it's sad that you missed out on so much.

Date: 2008-10-28 08:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
He doesn't have a son named Peter, does he? Sadly it's a common story. Mum's mum was the same. I always used to tease her for being a child bride, and then I met her mother, and it all became immediately clear.

And I should say that while I missed out on some things, I had many other great childhood experiences and was (and am) on the whole quite happy! I turned out reasonably well, at any rate!

Date: 2008-10-28 04:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeejunkii.livejournal.com
i wish people who aren't on board with gay marriage yet could read this! but i suspect none of them are on your flist.

Date: 2008-10-28 08:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Yes, that was my thinking, because my flist is fab! But then I decided that someone might have a family member or friend who was in Califonia and undecided and who had never thought about it from the personal side, so it's for them.

Date: 2008-10-28 04:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] winstonmom.livejournal.com
Wonderful way to explain things. I guess we are sometimes so involved in the politics of certain issues that we tend to not see the real picture. You are a true witness to the effects our decisions have in real families.
Thanks for sharing darling.

Date: 2008-10-28 08:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Yes, I am all for people holding to their beliefs, but sometimes personal beliefs come at costs that are just too high for others. I truly believe that by the end of my lifetime, we will look back on issues like this as we look back on miscegenation now, and wonder 'how could anyone have ever thought there was anything wrong with supporting love and commitment?'

You're very welcome, thanks for reading. XX

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Date: 2008-10-28 04:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prilbrum.livejournal.com
Beautifully put. I've recently been reading a lot of Dan Savage's writings. He is a popular internationally syndicated sex advice columnist from Seattle--my city (he is gay,--but the advice is not "gay advice"--straights and gays both write to him in droves for his extremely honest and often explicit advice ). He is hilarious, profane, intense, personal and political. And he makes the same point you do: if the far right claims it's all about protecting children, then what about the thousands of children being raised by gay parents? What about giving them the protection and security that comes with the legal and societal recognition given by marraige?

He says with appropriate rage at the far right-- what about my kid?

I highly recommend his two books about his family. One is The Kid: What Happened When My Boyfriend and I Decided to Adopt.

The second is calledThe Commitment: Love, Sex, and my Family.

It chronicles the year leading up to his and his boyfriend's tenth anniversary, and their waffling ideas about whether to get married or not. The adoption already happened six years previous. Dan's Catholic mother is pushing for it, their six year old son doesn't think men can get married, and the boyfriend doesn't want to act like straight people.

This is a very entertaining, and yet powerfully persuasive narrative--only a person made of ice could read it and not feel ashamed of a stance that denies the right of a secure and happy union to all families, however they are composed.

Thank you very much for sharing your own story. It is very moving and I think personal examples are very important for people to hear.

Date: 2008-10-28 08:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
I've read some of his stuff and he is fabulous, but his books had passed me by, thanks so much for the tip! And yes, the reason I made this post, and the reason I have had similar conversations to this post many times over many years, is because the more people see this as an issue about real people rather than stereotypes, the more likely they are to think with kindness rather than bigotry.

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Date: 2008-10-28 04:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nolagal.livejournal.com
Fabulous! I agree with you completely. The argument about how same-sex marriage would destroy the family is beyond backward and makes me livid. Many same-sex couples have wonderful, amazing families and are some of the best parents because they have often have to work so much harder to even start a family.

Date: 2008-10-28 08:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Yes! YES!!!!!

If people are genuinely concerned for the sanctity of marriage, then make it harder for straight people so they think about it longer and there are fewer divorces!

Date: 2008-10-28 05:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] romaine24.livejournal.com
You may be preaching to the choir but I want to thank you for sharing something so personal. I'm glad you had family that seemed to understand what was going on and that your dad was able to be there for you and for your mother.

I really despise that the US is so screwed up right now. *sigh*

Date: 2008-10-28 08:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
I really hope that all of us will move forward into a better furture, starting next week! At least you have marriage in some states, we have civil registrations, which have the legal rights of a marriage, but aren't marriages. I might send a copy of this to PM Rudd ...

Date: 2008-10-28 06:29 am (UTC)
ext_14590: (Default)
From: [identity profile] meredyth-13.livejournal.com
I have a lot of words in my head, but mostly ...

WORD!

*hugs*

Date: 2008-10-28 09:01 am (UTC)

Date: 2008-10-28 06:42 am (UTC)
luthien82: (Default)
From: [personal profile] luthien82
Very well said! If I'd be a citizen of California, I'd totally vote against Prop 8.

Not that I wouldn't have done that anyway, because Prop 8 is stupid, but just saying.

Date: 2008-10-28 09:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
That's the key point, isn't it? It's just DUMB! It's like saying gingers shouldn't be allowed to marry, or people with wonky toes ...

Date: 2008-10-28 07:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tomatoe18.livejournal.com
I have nothing to add to this. But I just want to say that this post made me cry (in a good way). I'm glad you shared your life story with us! It's an eye-opener for me. *HUGS* :)

Date: 2008-10-28 09:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
No crying! And it's only a bit of the lifestory: I've left out all the commune and travelling stories, not to mention the crazy Christmasses ;-)

Date: 2008-10-28 08:09 am (UTC)
potteresque_ire: (Default)
From: [personal profile] potteresque_ire
May I just nod and nod and then give you a big hug??? ♥

Date: 2008-10-28 09:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Yes, you may. *hugs back*

Date: 2008-10-28 08:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catsintheattic.livejournal.com
Thank you so much for sharing this little (huge) bit of your life. It moved me a lot. And I fully second your thoughts on gay marriage.

I'm not married and I never will marry. But that's my personal decision. First, we need the acceptance that everyone has the right to marry, because, like you said, it's about making it officially accepted. After that, we can fight that every form of bond - official or unofficial - has the right to be accepted and acknowledged.

Date: 2008-10-28 09:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Yeah, J and I aren't married, either, despite having been together over 13 years. We'd be happy for some nice lesbians to have our wedding!

Date: 2008-10-28 08:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daybreaq.livejournal.com
For Florida voters: NO on Amendment 2!

Date: 2008-10-28 09:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Thanks daybreaq! I deleted the other comment because you came up in the moment between me making a typo and correcting it: why is the numberpad on my computer the opposite way up to the numberpad on my phone?? 2 it is above again!

Date: 2008-10-28 08:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shiv5468.livejournal.com
We're just starting to get our first gay divorces now, and it's ... going to be interesting working that out. IN the meantime, the world has not come to an end, we've not had any earthquakes or hurricanes, so ... I'm thinking that has something to do with geography than god.

Date: 2008-10-28 09:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Just like every other one! I note that gay prenups are the new big thing, and can see some very silly clauses coming about ... but to be honest, I'd have had a prenup that had at least six sections for books if we'd gone that wy, so I can't judge ;-)

I can't help thinking that, were there to be a god, he or she would have more important things to worry about than gay marriage. Would that his followers did, too.

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Date: 2008-10-28 09:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pingrid.livejournal.com
Bravissima! This is a fantastic post, it should be read by every single person who thinks that a family is defined by the number of cocks involved. You know I think that, of course, but I just wanted to , I don't know, applaud you anyway. :)

Kes did a couple of posts a while back from the lesbian stepmother's perspective, and that's when I actually first realised exactly how atrocious some of the US laws are. Yes, I live in a protected little bubble, why do you ask? :) It just amazes me how stupid and malicious so MANY people are. In 2008. *retch*

Date: 2008-10-28 10:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Eh, no need for applause, just wanted to be say that not all the personal stories were on the other side of the argument.

Kes is wonderful, and she, and all those like her, deserve a far better world. I so hope they get it!!

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Date: 2008-10-28 10:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snottygrrl.livejournal.com
you are the best story teller. you should probably do something with words for a profession :D

seriously, i adore your posts ♥

Date: 2008-10-28 10:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You were at my work today! We're on deadline. Chief sub and I were trying to communicate. It went like this.

CS: D'you think .... thingy, thingy, THEN thingy?

Me: Mmmmmm. AFTER thingy, thingy thingy thingy.

CS: GAAAAAH! Der!

Me: Der de der de de-er!

Other sub: You two have forgotten how to use English, haven't you?

Us: Uh-huh.

Her: Good thing you work here then.

XXX

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From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-10-28 11:38 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2008-10-28 12:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lonejaguar.livejournal.com
Over here from [livejournal.com profile] ciroccoj's journal. I don't live in California, but the news of Proposition 8 scares me more because I find it amazing that people truly believe that allowing gays and lesbians to marry will cause the world to fall apart. My wife and I have been (legally) married for five years now here in Canada and the country is still standing.

Thank you for sharing your story. I think it's so important that people realise that demonizing gay marriage is only going to hurt more people than it helps (who is is helping, anyway?).
Edited Date: 2008-10-28 12:56 pm (UTC)

Date: 2008-10-28 01:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
That's the core question, isn't it: why are some people so spun out by the idea of happy homosexuals that they'll fight it at all costs?

It is such a strange prejudice. How can someone else's rights being acknowledged make a bigot's rights apparently worth less?

Congratulations on your marriage! Canada appears to be thriving!

Date: 2008-10-28 01:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aldehyde.livejournal.com
this is such a brilliant brilliant entry. more people need to be aware of stories like yours so they can understand how much damage something like prop 8 would cause. would you be uncomfortable if i linked this entry on my personal journal? i will totally understand if you don't want me to!

Date: 2008-10-28 01:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blamebrampton.livejournal.com
Feel free to link away. I wanted to write it down because so often the opposite case is presented as a 'pro-children' case, which is ridiculous. Public entries here are always public, and I'm happy to have anyone read this. XXX
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