Hey, Americans ...

[blamebrampton]

Do you ever use forms of cliché other than plain old cliché? Such as clichéd or clichés? I see it used in a manner that I would consider wrong so often that I am wondering if it is one of those wacky idioms that English develops up all around the world. Or it could just be young people today with their emo music and Twittering ...

Comments

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yes, both s and d endings are quite right and are standardised in non-American English usage. American usage seems to allow for the d at least to be left off. The pronunciations in Britglish, AusEnglish and KiwiEnglish all allow for the d quite easily, more so that US English according to my bad fake Yankee accent test.

And from the English English perspective, we do standardise many of the words we appropriate, we like to make them feel at home in the language ;-)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

While gotten is ugly, it at least makes sense as it is a straight-up Old English construction (a fact I just checked in my OE text, which fell on my head as I tried to scoop it from the shelf: I suffer for my accuracy!) to use the -en suffix.

Losing the established s and d endings with cliche is much less easily understood, unless it is down to diction. Having spent a few minutes trying it out with bad fake American accents, I think you may well have nailed the reason.

Trite is subtly different, though in many cases superior for the specific meaning the writer is apparently aiming at.

AND my head hurts.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

What rosathome says ;-) But I adore your use of footnotes!

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yes, d and s endings would be my natural choice. And gotten is ugly, but I can live with its use given that it follows a straightforward construction that has its roots in Old English. But I do think that it should be considered idiosyncratic usage, as should acclimated. Alas, both are so widespread they are considered US standard.

I strongly agree with you that there are changes afoot in the language, but do feel that some should be stomped on. Drugged should be first set fire to, then the ashes stomped on ;-)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

No, no, they are quite right. But I now have the new problem that North Americans read a construction I consider to obviously mean A, as meaning not A ;-)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

You are still young! You are simply not Yoof, because you are sane.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

It's seeming as though ditching the d at least is quite acceptable in US English, hence the oft-seen 'That is SO cliché!'

I shall be more gentle in my beta-ing in future!

[sesheta-66.livejournal.com]

I'll be honest ... I read through the comments before adding my own, so I went with how the majority had interpreted it.

[raitala.livejournal.com]

Just to add to your confusion, I was also not sure whether you were telling me that clichéd and clichés were the constructions you actually had a problem with or not - so it isn't just North Americans who could misread those sentences. Just goes to show that keyboard-English has a WHOLE other set of communication difficulties :)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Smart Americans and at least one Canadian with good reading skills took it as the opposite of what I thought it naturally read as, so I think there will be an underlying rule here somewhere (and I seem to recall having a similar issue with a sentence in a fic I wrote, but my natural bad memory and recent new head injury due to textbook to head means that I have no idea where ...)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I was trying to not impose on them the idea that to leave off the s and d was wrong (regardless of my personal beliefs), while still given the other forms as examples. Perhaps a paragraph break would have helped!

[raitala.livejournal.com]

That'll teach you to be all airy fairy and liberal. We all know your inner wrathful grammar purist was bubbling beneath the surface, so your liberality was just confusing ;)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I have been told that throwing things at people's heads for grammar infringements is not conducive to learning.

(And I dropped A Guide to Old English on my head, which now has a lump :-()

(Thinking about it, there is a certain almost-irony there ...)

[faynia.livejournal.com]

I read your post twice trying to decide if the issue was clichéd vs clichés (neither of which my Firefox spell check appreciates) or with the way we young people tend to bandy it about for everything.

I've decided that the usage works for anything that's at least two months old. Owning an Ipod? Tch, so cliché. XD

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

That was in fact what twigged me to the fact that Americans might find the lack of d and s endings perfectly acceptable, when my Firefox spellcheck told me they were wrong. I had the sudden realisation that it could be another They Do Things Differently There moment.

And I adore my iPod, even though it is responsible for me now owning all three volumes of Queen's Greatest Hits ;-)

[raitala.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, head trauma is not often conducive to learning. It would appear from the comments above that there is a slippy-slope practice of using cliché as an adjective over in the US. I don't think I mind all that much. The meaning is still clear and maybe you are right and it is awkward to say the -d in many American accents.

I can't understand leaving off the s of the plural though. That is A Step Too Far.

[faynia.livejournal.com]

You know, we do a lot of stupid things differently here. Many embarrassing, facepalm worthy things. Sometimes I think I stay living here for the laughs I get over our awesome stupidity at times.

Wow. Can't say I've got that, or an Ipod.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

It's what happens when you burn your old David Bowie CDs to the pod, then realise that you quite like Under Pressure, then have a little giggle about Radio Gaga, then suddenly remember how much you perversely liked Barcelona with Monserat Caballe guest-vocals ... Before you know it, dodgy purchases have been made ;-)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

It really hurts!

And yes, both sound awkward, but leaving the s off just makes no sense!

[faynia.livejournal.com]

I approve of these dodgy purchases.

The last splurge purchase I made happened in Victoria Secret. And, you know? I didn't get a single piece of lingerie.

And like I told my mother, now my bedroom smells like a brothel. \o/

[silvershinigami.livejournal.com]

I saw this post and got horribly confused as to whether I was wrong for using clichéd and clichés. ;_; You made me run for a dictionary!

I think it's one of those things where it's kind of tricky to hear the difference in speech, so if people don't read enough to stumble across the correct usage, then they just assume it's cliché and only cliché.

[raitala.livejournal.com]

Poor you! Go and put some frozen peas on it and let us comfort ourselves with the idea that the great expressiveness and versatility of the english language comes from is ready adaption to new currents of influence.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I do not know what they sell, aside from bras, and half of my brain now believes you brought home a selection of young men. Though I did just have a book fall onto my head ...

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

And its handy swear words!

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I think you are right about people using it as they hear it. I recently read petty bourgeoisie used (not as a pun or idiomatic usage) by someone who had clearly heard the term but never seen it written.