Hey, Americans ...

[blamebrampton]

Do you ever use forms of cliché other than plain old cliché? Such as clichéd or clichés? I see it used in a manner that I would consider wrong so often that I am wondering if it is one of those wacky idioms that English develops up all around the world. Or it could just be young people today with their emo music and Twittering ...

Comments

[azurelunatic]

It's young people. I often whack their knees with my cane as I pass.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Oh, BLESS YOU!

[cinnatart.livejournal.com]

I do not use inappropriate forms myself, however I have seen it in abundance. I'm convinced it's either Americanism or, like you said, the youth of the day.

*scratches head and wonders when she stopped considering herself part of that youth* EEP

[nolagal.livejournal.com]

Pretty sure it's us wacky Americans with a complete disregard for the English language.

How have you seen it used incorrectly?

[adevyish.livejournal.com]

Canadian of the younger generation, and "clichéd" and "clichés" both sound right to me. I suppose I'll have to punish myself now by retaking French.

[old-enough.livejournal.com]

I'm almost 60 and spent the first 40 years in the US and the next 20 in various places in Europe. To my ear it is perfectly OK to say clichéd and clichés, but I have developed a severe allergy to the US "gotten".

That said, there appear to be lots and lots of what I learned as irregular past tense verb forms that are changing to be more regular in their conjugations. I am willing to be flexible on that issue, but have threatened to make several people "gender neutral" if I ever hear them say "drugged" instead of "dragged" again. :)

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

I've always assumed it was an error brought on by poor diction. Unlike gotten which is just an error. Sniffs. I suggest the use of trite, which avoids the problem.

[glorafin.livejournal.com]

Isn't "clichés" an acceptable plural for "cliché"? If not, it should. :)

As for clichéd, I find the word quite ugly, with that unpronouncable 'éd' at the end. Actuall, I'm not quite sure why one could not use 'cliché' as an adjective. I would have thought that a "cliché story" would be understandable by all, as is "love story" or "horror story". But then again, that possibility of using substantives as adjectives is on of the most puzzling features of the English language, at least for French native speakers.

[norton-gale.livejournal.com]

I've always said clichéd or clichés. Is it a technically incorrect usage? And if so, why?

[sesheta-66.livejournal.com]

Hee! I'm a Canadian of a slightly older generation and both sound right to me too.

However, I shall not be retaking French. :P

[sesheta-66.livejournal.com]

Both sound correct to me, and I may have used either or both myself over the years. I've certainly heard (and seen) them both used frequently, and would never have considered either one of them to be wrong. *shrugs*

It's not limited to the young today, though I'll happily accept the young label if you're offering. ;D Perhaps it's just a North American thing, because it's common in Canada too.

Both forms are listed in the Merriam Webster online dictionary also.

I also checked Oxford, which lists clichéd as the adjective. Since it lists cliché as a noun, it makes sense that clichés would be the plural, no?

[sesheta-66.livejournal.com]

Hee! According to Merriam-Webster, none are considered errors. Gotten is listed as a past-participle of get, and both clichés and clichéd are forms of cliché.

Oxford states the same, though they point out that gotten is North American, and is often regarded as non-standard.

[rosathome.livejournal.com]

Oh, that irritates me beyond all reason too. I do see it as part of a wider trend to abandon the past participle for some unaccountable reason. People regularly seem to write things like 'I use to do that...' And particularly in the adjectival form, the -ed ending seems increasingly optional. Poor diction must, I think, have quite a lot to do with this.

But, to be fair with respect to your actual example, I suppose one could make a case for using cliché in its French form, rather than as an Anglicization, in which case you would still have clichés but not clichéd.

[rosathome.livejournal.com]

The question is whether or not it is acceptable to use the form 'cliché' in cases where one would expect the forms 'clichéd' or 'clichés'. What does M-W say about that?

[suttonwriter.livejournal.com]

Both have been common usage most of my life. And how a word is used determines whether or not it's correct, not what language mavens and English teachers think (believe me, I've tried to stamp out utilize and finally had to give up).

[rosathome.livejournal.com]

And now, having read the comments, it seems to me that the matter is so far gone that quite a lot of people have been able to interpret your question in completely the opposite way from what I assumed you meant.

My understanding is that (British) English inflects the word cliché to give the adjectival form clichéd and the plural form clichés. This is what I would view as standard. I assumed your question was directed to those (mainly Americans) who use only the form cliché in all situations, even when it is adjectival or plural. But several people seem to have assumed you were asking whether clichéd and clichés were acceptable forms at all.

[sesheta-66.livejournal.com]

Sorry ... I thought the question was whether clichéd and clichés were correct, not the other way around.

M-W and Oxford list cliché as a noun, which might suggest that no, it shouldn't be used that way, but M-W also mentions it as an adjective. *shrugs*

Oxford cliché
M-W cliché
M-W clichéd

[rosathome.livejournal.com]

So that would indicate that it is an American/British distinction then. If M-W (which is American) lists the form cliché as both adjective and noun, but OED only lists it as a noun, that's the difference blamebrampton was asking about.

[bryoneybrynn.livejournal.com]

I use cliched. Also, I use the accent, I'm just too lazy to figure out how to do it on my keyboard (Word always supplies it for me). That said, I've only ever used it in conversation - I've never used in a paper or something.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I know! It's wackier than I suspected! I fear that before I die there will be English-American, American-English translation dictionaries ...

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

On a Mac, you can do it by typing option + E, then E. Not sure about PCs because I am too much of a wanker to have ever owned one ;-).

Clichéd is quite right, and we have uncovered another area where English construction fails to cross the Atlantic easily.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Ah ... C'est le ton qui fait la musique ;-)

Yes, I was about to type my 412th [insert d] after the word cliché for an HP beta (for multiple writers) when I suddenly thought ... hang on, perhaps this is actually an acceptable usage a la gotten?

Apparently it is, and I agree with you that it is most likely due to diction. Which sounds odd to me as my mouth wants to close off that big open vowel to mark the p.p., but when I do a very bad fake American accent, it is actually harder to get my tongue up to the back of my teeth to make that d.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Oh, I HATE utlise/ze. It is such an ugly word. I always mark it up and ask the writer if they really want to construct a tone that reads as dull Public Service?

And yes, I have been merrily marking up the lack of the d and s as error when beta-ing, but then had the sudden realisation that perhaps it was kosher to use cliché for all three forms after all. And I do not like to stamp on words solely because they are Americanisms, as I would miss kosher, persnickety, and several others far too much. Though aluminum and acclimated can sod off ;-)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the d and s endings are what I would automatically use, yet American writers very often discard the d, and quite often the s, too.

And now I have to work out a rule for why the construction of that paragraph can be read with the reverse meaning in the US. My brain is going to melt one day ...

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

No, quite right. But of course the new problem of why a construction I think means one thing means the opposite to Americans has popped up ;-)