A case in point ...

[blamebrampton]

So, there we were, having a chat on a friend's LJ about the differences between the US and the UK for purposes of a self-Britpicking list, with participants from both sides of the pond and beyond and frequent diversions into baiting and comedy from all sides, and apparently it has become a source of Flocked Drama.

Consider the argument very carefully: At least one American is very upset that British people prefer to be depicted in accurate ways.

And if you can't see why that's a bit dodgy, replace the word British with any other nationality.

I don't want to overstate the case, because really, it doesn't culturally oppress us the way that some other cultures have been oppressed by this sort of thing, since we don't deeply care and we had an Empire first. And while the original source of the complaint is a preference, it's certainly not a sine qua non, and we read heaps of stuff that gets us wrong, and some of it is good and some is crap, and really, at the end of the day we still pronounce and spell aluminium in ways that are scientifically logical, which in itself is enough. But, honestly ...

Interestingly, one of my points of difference was a tendency to soap-opera-like over-reactions in fiction. Clearly I drew the line too narrowly.

AND I left off the fact that it the entire United States has been the subject of mass-brainwashing to accept caffeinated flavoured beverages as coffee. Though I see Starbucks has dropped the word from their logo, truth in advertising at last!

Comments

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

But atttempting to portray all these alien cultures accurately is so haaaaaaaaaaard. :( It's not like any place but America really matters, you know?

On a serious note, I get really annoyed when people get Russia and Hungary wrong (which is basically ALL THE TIME), so I totally sympathise with the Brits. Failing to research is not oppressive, it's just sloppy and rude.

Also, I don't get it. Have people not heard of hp_britglish? It is an extensive repository of all things Britlandian, and not at all difficult to navigate. And if one can't find the answer one is looking for, one can always ask; it's an active and rather lively comm. (No, no, I know. It's just so haaaaaaaaaaard. :()

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Oh you make me laugh ... (Also because I just remembered yesterday's freezing camouflage cat ...)

To be fair, it IS hard to write in another nation's voice, and I never expect non-natives to get any culture spot-on. I don't, even after living in Australia for yonks. And while hp_britglish and similar comms and lists are brilliant resources, I can accept that some people don't care and I'm not actually too perturbed by that, each to their own.

I do draw the line at the idea of discussing the issue of difference being some form of ghastly anti-Americanism, though.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

I love that cat! I uploaded a bunch of new (well, old, but ones I hadn't used before) lolcats into my scrapbook and I am looking forward to unleashing them. :3

I agree it's not easy, nor is it possible to be spot-on, but I'm not sure why "it's hard to be perfectly spot-on" has to morph into "since it's hard to be perfect, there's no point bothering".

(I mean, even locals can have trouble being 100% spot-on simply because even in small countries, there are regional variations. I've spent a lot of time in the Budapest area, both in the city and in a tiny village in the same county, but if I was going to sit down and write a story set in Eger (a mere 140km away), I'd have to do some research about local customs just to make sure I don't have characters making out in the middle of a plaza if there's a craft festival there every year or something. I see Brits from different regions and generations disagreeing with one another in HP Britglish all the time, too.)

I remember reading a story in another fandom where people were getting ready for Christmas in what would at the time would've been Soviet Russia, and they were getting ready for Christmas in Gregorian December. Like, Google "Russia Christmas" and you get an article that says both that it was banned for decades and that it's not celebrated in December -- all within the first 2 paragraphs!

I totally accept that some people don't care, I just don't want them to get in my face about not wanting to read their fic because I keep getting thrown out by cultural or historical inaccuracies. Everyone makes mistakes, but it is pretty easy to tell the difference between the writing of someone who's not 'from there' but did research and someone who just didn't bother. I like accuracy, and I just don't appreciate their not caring, and my time is more important to me than their ~painstaking writing efforts~, anyway. :P

the issue of difference being some form of ghastly anti-Americanism
If you're different from Americans, you must hate America! You filthy communist!

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHAHAAH! I had that exact conversation the last time I was in the US! Of course, it was with the same woman who thought the Australian government went door to door and took everyone's guns away, so she wasn't really representative (though she may have been a Tea Partier before her time).

And yes, I do agree with you that research is usually a good sign. I think it;s a perfectly reasonable thing to base reading choices on. But I liked Reign of Fire, so obviously I will put up with quite a bit of dodginess if there is something else there. (Hush. It was not solely Christian Bale's upper arms. Oh, maybe it was ...)

[drbunsen.livejournal.com]

Reign Of Fire!

[jadzialove.livejournal.com]

Meaning no harm, as I'm not at all versed on this except for Brammer's post (and truthfully I haven't read all of the comments here), but I feel the need to interject that I, personally, defriended hp_britglish because I was tired of the contradictions and the generally snotty-ness that often occurred, largely between UK folks.

The last straw for me was a conversation regarding icing vs. frosting that degraded into the ridiculous. Two or three Brits. It was ugly and stupid.

All I'm saying is that just like any place, one thing can be perfectly true say, in the north, and completely wrong in the south, or city vs. farm country. Research is great and I certainly wouldn't say don't do it, but a person could put weeks of research into something and still completely miss. Especially if they rely on hp_britglish, which can be rather UN-helpful at times.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I remember the icing vs frosting kerfuffle. That was pretty funny -- at least to me; I didn't think it got particularly ugly, but yeah, it was stupid.

I don't follow that comm for the members' sparkling personalities, though, but for the information I can obtain from the posts and comments. Five contradictory replies based on regional differences is also information, namely that there is no One Right British Way to a thing (and that's certainly true about a lot of things, not just in the UK). If a thing is true in the north (but is true in the south) and my fic is set in the south, well, I won't use the north person's advice. It doesn't make it incorrect advice, just useless for my purposes. :)

[jadzialove.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Well possibly my memory of it being ugly was influenced by my general opinion about what it turned into, and that it happened at all.

I think research is a fine thing. I've just personally found hp_britglish mostly unhelpful and generally irksome and I wouldn't want it to be an author's only resource, but yes if nothing else, at least go there to check things out if you're uncertain.