The difference between LJ and Skyehawke

[blamebrampton]

In one of my stories, I have a scene in which the bad guys attempt to take control of the Thames Barrier to hold it open while an artificial storm surge races up the river to flood much of London. It's told in fast snatches, but there are a number of very clear bits of information given to show what's happening, including:

The rest of Draco's Unspeakables arrive. He speaks quickly: "Thames Barrier, we think there's a team using dark magic to hold it open. Storm surge is coming, a big one."

A few people responded to its posting on LJ with "I had no idea what the Barrier was, so I looked it up, it's cool/was on Doctor Who!"

Last night I posted that chapter on Skyhawke. Today I received a comment similar to "Look, I liked it, but you'd have made the ending so much more gripping if you'd explained what the Barrier was." *

I was THIS CLOSE to answering with "Thanks very much for letting me know you liked it, but if you need more Barrier info, you can find it easily! In my day we did not have Google and you had to shag computer scientists to get internet access, so just count yourself lucky, young whippersnapper and use the tools Tim Berners-Lee gave you!"

I held back, but only because I knew I'd receive a reply saying "Berners-Lee? Who?!"

Ah LJ folk, Let me never take you for granted ...

* I should emphasise that I genuinely think this person meant to be helpful here. They were not being intentionally annoying, I am just the least patient closet librarian in the vicinity.

Comments

[emerald-dragon8.livejournal.com]

Hehe. That's not as bad as some I get on FF.net, though. I got a PM once saying "write more snarry fics" and nothing else. And that's not even the worst. I won't even talk about the "ew, slash" flames I get for fics marked "Harry/Draco, slash". *headdesk*

But yes, you're right: if you see something in a fic that you don't know about, you google. You don't harass the poor author.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Oh NO! That's just silliness! I hereby give you a gift of a phrase I use in my professional life: Some people are too stupid to read this publication.

Maybe we need a little warning up with the wordcount and NC17, etc. You could choose from "brain candy", "requires a little thought", "complex themes", "some research may be required" or "Will need your full concentration".

[deannawol.livejournal.com]

"In my day we did not have Google and you had to shag computer scientists to get internet access, so just count yourself lucky, young whippersnapper and use the tools Tim Berners-Lee gave you!"

I absolutely love this reply. Priceless. See, I don't think comments like that are particularly helpful. I mean, I can't see how changing it to "Thames Barrier (that big thing in the middle of the Thames that stops loads of towns from flooding during high rains), we think there's a team using dark magic to hold it open. Storm surge is coming, a big one."

Or similar, adds to a story at all... But that's just me. Fairly pedantic really when you think about it.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I agree entirely! It's also not exposition that you give when you live in a city. You know the geography, and the public works!

[tomatoe18.livejournal.com]

What? People still do that? I mean, people still don't hit the Google or the Wiki when they don't understand something? I thought this was the norm in... well, everything. Research, research, research!

But I have to agree that LJers are probably more keen on using Google to find out about stuff rather than asking silly questions... the way people get verbally poked when they do so without consulting the Internet at large around here is pretty scary... so we all learned early on not ask silly questions.

You might be interested to know that I had no idea what a Thames Barrier was but I didn't go search for it in Google. It might be fun to know what it is exactly but I understood from your writing that it was something important and possibly dangerous. Not knowing what it is didn't lessen the impact the scene had on me.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I'm the same with stories about corporate worlds. I can gather enough to understand what's important, and can not worry about having to fill my brain with things that may not be needed.

And, alas, many people fail to Google. Including journalists. I argued with one recently about her assertion that the Ancient Egyptians painted their nipples with molten gold. She insisted they did. I pulled up an annotated Periodic Table and pointed out that gold melts around 900 deg C. It hadn't occurred to her to look. Sigh.

[khateh.livejournal.com]

I thought that sort of people were on ff and that Skyehawke was a bit better, but well...

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I'm sure they mostly are. I'm just a grumpy old haggis who spends her life dealing with lazy journos. Still, NB the LJ peoples' smartses!

[el-princess.livejournal.com]

"Thanks very much for letting me know you liked it, but if you need more Barrier info, you can find it easily! In my day we did not have Google and you had to shag computer scientists to get internet access, so just count yourself lucky, young whippersnapper and use the tools Tim Berners-Lee gave you!"

That made me laugh so much. I definitely would have sent that reply! I thought skyhawke was a bit more 'highbrow' alas I was wrong.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Oh it generally is! But I think every group has one vague person who would rather someone else did it for them ...

[banbury.livejournal.com]

You are so-o-o right! Many people are so ignorant that days (we've even had some problems with our TV programm when our higher-ups'd told us about some theme "we know nothing about it and we're not interested, so nobody will be interesed") and I don't like modern journalism in the main, cause many journalists (especially from younger generation) don't bother to check information or to find the right one, so... it's just like this comment on your wonderful story (i haven't heard of the barrier before and I checked it out too :-))

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly! And because we post in the internet, I think there's a tacit assumption that people will do that, because it can be done so easily. Goodness knows I look things up all the time!

I had a journalist who wrote about the problems of the Middle East and focussed her whole story on Afghanistan. I pointed out that Afghanistan was in Asia, and was told that I was clearly an idiot. Happily there was a map to hand.

You know, I've watched some very smart TV lately, and the shows that I have loved have all been surprise hits. I suspect people actually like the odd smart thing. More of it would be good!

[pingrid.livejournal.com]

*snicker* But not really. I despair of people - why do they not think for themselves?!

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Because Someone Else Can Do It For Them!

I can see my Crochetty Old Ladyness approaching fast ...

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

Poor computer scientists must hate google for the havoc it wreaked on their personal lives.

Not everyone has the google fu

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yeah, if it was something obscure I would not mock, but any search engine will bring you something helpful if you type in Thames Barrier. And if you can navigate Skyehawke, you should be able to navigate a search engine.

They curse Mosaic, which took Net access from an arcane art best practiced after the offering up of arts student nubility to a simple URL entry and click. Tim B-L receives hate mail from geeks who haven't been able to pull girls in black miniskirts since the mid 90s.

[lilliputian722.livejournal.com]

Sorry....I'm still stumbling over the knowledge that you got a review on SkyeHawke; I thought those were almost impossible to get!

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

It's more of a gentle correction ;-)

[libby-drew.livejournal.com]

Great post! Though it would have been more gripping if you'd explained what the internet was.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Can't comment back wittily, too busy laughing!

[beatnikspinster.livejournal.com]

In my day we did not have Google and you had to shag computer scientists to get internet access
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Oh. My. God. Too funny. Maybe you should make footnotes. 1) A dial: Like those totally old things stuck on TVs before remote controls. You can see them on old movies and stuff.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh god, yes!

Also, actual conversation between me and young nephew --

Me: Colour television was so new when I was little, in fact, where your mummy was, in Australia, you didn't have it at all until I was about seven!

Nephew: Oh Aunty, don't be stupid. You're not that old!

[absynthedrinker.livejournal.com]

And people used to say "high dudgeon" wasn't your color. Tsk Tsk!

Peace,

Bubba

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's medium dudgeon at worst ...

[sarcasticpixie.livejournal.com]

I do so love those reviews. I hope you gave them a worthy tongue-lashing. Although some computer scientists are very cute.

When I was a wee lass of 14, I wrote what was in my opinion a sprawling epic of delightful creativity. (It was not, but hey, practice is everything!) It's been on Fictionalley since that time, and sometime in 2000, I completely forgot about it. Fast-forward six years to me getting a scathing review and mean-spirited critique of my writing ability. I mean, there's something to be said for criticism, but what part of "posted on 4-11-2000" did they miss? I desperately wanted to reply with "Dude, I've earned a high school diploma and bachelor's degree in the interim," but I decided not to...

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Nah, I know that they genuinely meant it kindly, and am just being mean pointing out their laziness.

I suspect that your 'reviewer' (actual term: pratface) didn't read your notes at all, LAZINESS AGAIN!

It's the one downside of the internet; my generation was able to burn its bad stories and lose its bad photos.

[meredyth-13.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, the hand me my information on a platter mindset, we know it well. I actually thought you described enough of the Barrier and the significance of the storm surge to satisfy the narrative drama of the scene, and additional information was more for mental padding than anything else.

How are you otherwise? I had a mixed day - involving random wall painting at the office, much walking in driving sleet storms (seriously, there were chunks), paying for airline tickets, and just now ... da da da dum ... booking a bloody hotel room in London. I 'talked' to a person in London. I think I may have squeed slightly. I hope they didn't mind.

Oh, I also watched two episodes of Spooks, drank possibly an excessive amount of liquid with interesting bubbles, and ate good thai food that was only an hour late being delivered.

Is that enough about me yet?

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

It's never enough about you, Mere!

I found a NEW book by Martin Millar the other day and was able to begin it today after finishing my Sherlock Holmes novel (read for nefarious purposes!)

It was beautiful here this morning and bitter this evening, I hope that you have been hving the odd clear and sunny day, too, amid the sleet.

YAY for hotel rooms! I need to book tickets at some point soon ... Wil be stalking people and companies who owe me money for the next week in a bid to sort some Melbourne tickets asap!

[uminohikari.livejournal.com]

...huh. I had no idea what the Barrier was, but I thought you gave enough clues in even that little section to show that it's Important and Involved in Not-Flooding. :|

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

That's because you're a thinking type! It just amused me how self-sufficient all the LJers were by comparison. Clearly we are all more practical than we look over here!

[romaine24.livejournal.com]

I have to remember this one for the list of how to tell a story was written by me. In writing for my job, we have to put in references and links for everything. I'm so used to it that I put a list of links at the end of my stories (anon) or not for these things. I think I have about 5 for Survival of the Species. :) It's a habit I can't quite break. I've tried, but the twitching that comes upon me interferes with my being able to function. :)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Your footnotes are great fun, though!

But I have to confess that the first time I read SoS I broke off half way through one scene to google some geography; you were in an area I half-knew, but I thought it would work better with more details. I only expect what I am prepared to do!

[joanwilder.livejournal.com]

Of all the places that I archive, I've found that skyehawke reviewers (when then finally do decide to review) are the toughest.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I just refuse to have characters give exposition that they would never bother with in reality unless it's for backstory. And you're SO RIGHT about the low numbers. I've been reading a few great stories there that have thousands of hits and three or four reviews!

[brinian.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

Back in the day we used to use *gasp* BOOKS! Egads!

I like reading at Skyehawke. It's easy to use and the formatting is more reader-friendly than ff. I generally leave comments on authors' LJs though. I like that LJ lets me friend people and then I see the chapters as they get posted and I don't have to check for them. And then we become friends and chat :-)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I know! I had a discussion with a workmate the other day about how we used to walk down to the library of an afternoon to check facts for stories, but we lost in our 'in my day' bragging rights to an oldtimer who used to work on a newspaper with its own library.

Yes, I think you've summed up the plusses of LJ very nicely. Maybe it's more obviously a cooperative environment over here?

[dragonfly-lily.livejournal.com]

LOL! You should just google it for her and the first site that comes up your response.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I know that the writer *meant* to be helpful, I did suggest Google search terms, so I was helpful back ;-)

[arcanetrivia]

I would have expected "Barrier" to have been at least vaguely explained in the fic because it is not part of the canon.

Who's Berners-Lee? *ducks*

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

In the context, it's pretty explained. And you Americans expect the rest of us to know that you don;t mean art school when you say college!

Tim Berners-Lee is THE FOUNDER OF THE MODERN INTERNET: html, URLs, you name it, he is The Man. Go and look him up you lazy Gen Y-er!

[grey-hunter.livejournal.com]

haha whippersnapper... is that non-HP-speech for "dunderhead"? :D (Btw, my dictionary say that's an American expression. Is that right?)

I'd have felt like gripping their throat and shaking just a little bit. :P

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I think it means young and inexperienced person. It's definitely American, they use it all the time in old American films!

[rhaniyago.livejournal.com]

I just read that chapter on Skyhawke and had already put down a note to look up the internet for the "Thames Barrier" (no books available :( ) . I'll do that later. But I sooo loved your comment, and at my time, the internet not even existed (at least no access for "normal" people) - and no matter how much I would have shagged some computer specialist -.. in a way I was lucky there was not need, never found those very attractive, no offense meant to any computer scientist, of course.