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blamebramptonI was raised to be quite broadminded. So much so that I often find myself arguing against myself until I am nearly convinced of something I don't actually believe. Or, as in this case, I actually DO believe both sides of the argument. Which brings us to today's topic:
ELITE ARCHIVES: GOOD FANDOM SERVICE OR SATAN'S BASTARD SPAWN?
By 'Elite Archives', I mean fic archives or communities that list fics that have been selected by a group of moderators, and which selections are made using particular criteria.
Some have invited authors, who are able to post any of their stories, others choose specific stories.
In the brief Pro Elite Archives case, they're a brilliant one-stop shop for good-quality fics in particular fandoms or pairings. You can be certain that anything posted there will be of a certain standard and that it will be, at a base level, *good*, regardless of whether or not it is to your specific taste.
These archives expose the work of excellent writers to a far broader audience than most could find on their own, and they also encourage writers whose work is given the stamp of approval. For people who are new to the fandom, they are a wonderful place to start, and for people within it they are a place to 'show our best'.
For the brief Anti case, Elite Archives focus on the best of fandom, according to *particular criteria*. Often this comes down to the personal tastes of a small group of people. While those tastes are almost certainly educated, and the mods that I know try to work against personal prejudices, it's impossible to not draw lines.
Drawing lines inevitably leads to hurt feelings, and accusations of bias against the mods, and of Princess Tantypantsdom against people who complain about being 'left out'. Then people who feel they have been hard done by strike back, and their friends take sides, and before you know it things look like one of those unfortunate Christmas dinners where you end up hiding in the stables.
To rebut the Pro case: how do you decide on that standard? There are only a small number of writers in fandom that I would describe as very good. There are more, but also a fairly small number, that I would describe as very bad. There are a lot who are average, and that's not an insult. Most of us are average writers at some point in our lives, just as we're average at sports we're learning. Then there is the group that makes the whole process incredibly difficult, the group of writers who are good, entertaining and competent, but not very good.
It's the difference between Trilby, which is a rollicking good novel, and Emma, which is brilliant. The difference between Disney's The Little Mermaid and Hans Christian Andersen's. In both cases the former is still enjoyable, but it's just not as good as the latter. However, people often enjoy the former more. Yet a truly Elite Archive would probably miss out on these. And so would its audience.
To rebut the Anti case: Elite is not a dirty word. Yes it's sad that some people might have their feelings hurt by not being included in a particular archive, but at the same time it acts as an incentive to learn about and improve their craft, while inclusion for inclusion's sake leads to a fandom that promotes mediocrity, and we have enough of that in politics these days.
In conclusion:
Buggered if I know, you tell me what YOU think.
ELITE ARCHIVES: GOOD FANDOM SERVICE OR SATAN'S BASTARD SPAWN?
By 'Elite Archives', I mean fic archives or communities that list fics that have been selected by a group of moderators, and which selections are made using particular criteria.
Some have invited authors, who are able to post any of their stories, others choose specific stories.
In the brief Pro Elite Archives case, they're a brilliant one-stop shop for good-quality fics in particular fandoms or pairings. You can be certain that anything posted there will be of a certain standard and that it will be, at a base level, *good*, regardless of whether or not it is to your specific taste.
These archives expose the work of excellent writers to a far broader audience than most could find on their own, and they also encourage writers whose work is given the stamp of approval. For people who are new to the fandom, they are a wonderful place to start, and for people within it they are a place to 'show our best'.
For the brief Anti case, Elite Archives focus on the best of fandom, according to *particular criteria*. Often this comes down to the personal tastes of a small group of people. While those tastes are almost certainly educated, and the mods that I know try to work against personal prejudices, it's impossible to not draw lines.
Drawing lines inevitably leads to hurt feelings, and accusations of bias against the mods, and of Princess Tantypantsdom against people who complain about being 'left out'. Then people who feel they have been hard done by strike back, and their friends take sides, and before you know it things look like one of those unfortunate Christmas dinners where you end up hiding in the stables.
To rebut the Pro case: how do you decide on that standard? There are only a small number of writers in fandom that I would describe as very good. There are more, but also a fairly small number, that I would describe as very bad. There are a lot who are average, and that's not an insult. Most of us are average writers at some point in our lives, just as we're average at sports we're learning. Then there is the group that makes the whole process incredibly difficult, the group of writers who are good, entertaining and competent, but not very good.
It's the difference between Trilby, which is a rollicking good novel, and Emma, which is brilliant. The difference between Disney's The Little Mermaid and Hans Christian Andersen's. In both cases the former is still enjoyable, but it's just not as good as the latter. However, people often enjoy the former more. Yet a truly Elite Archive would probably miss out on these. And so would its audience.
To rebut the Anti case: Elite is not a dirty word. Yes it's sad that some people might have their feelings hurt by not being included in a particular archive, but at the same time it acts as an incentive to learn about and improve their craft, while inclusion for inclusion's sake leads to a fandom that promotes mediocrity, and we have enough of that in politics these days.
In conclusion:
Buggered if I know, you tell me what YOU think.
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no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 04:34 pm (UTC)My position comes back to this - what happened to the days when kids competed at school, and the ones that were actually good at a sport were the ones that got picked for the team. The rest had to suck it up and either get better at their sport of choice, if it was important to them, or settle for playing in the backyard with their friends, or in the park, and just accept that someone else might actually be better than them.
The same goes for archives, there are parks and backyards available for everyone, and if you play with your friends you know exactly how the game is going to go, and if you play in the park you accept that the world may be watching and judging, and might throw cans at you if you suck or they just don't like the socks you're wearing.
And if you get picked for a team you get to play at your best, and continue to be your best, and if you start to fuck up, or the coach doesn't like the style you're developing you either straighten yourself up, or you get to sit on the bench, or get kicked from the team. That's how it works.
And if you WANT to get picked for a team, you practice and practice and work hard to improve in the way the team wants, and then you go to tryouts, and maybe you'll get there. And maybe you're 5'0" and have no hand/eye coordination and you'll never really be good at basketball, and you have to just accept that nature didn't give you the right gifts and go find something you can shine at.
This is life, and we're losing track of it - both in school sports (where every kid has to have a place on the 'team' now, because god help the little buggers if they have to deal with rejection and that sitting in front of their computer all day doesn't make them good sprinters) and in fandom (where every kid seems to feel they have to have a place on the team, because god help the little buggers if they have to deal with rejection and that refusing to refer to a dictionary or actually learn about sentence structure and grammar and style doesn't make them good writers).
We're also, unfortunately, losing the character building that goes with this life lesson. Character is not about how loud you throw a tantrum when you don't get your own way - it's about learning that life can be tough, we aren't always good enough, and we have to get on and suck it up and do better, and be happy with ourselves when better still may not be good enough.
I play in my backyard, and occasionally in the park. I already know that my friends like me and that the people in the park don't really care that I'm throwing my ball around. I have no expectations of being picked for the team, but I'll keep bloody trying. And if they stop picking teams based on excellence, then what the hell is there to try for?
:D
no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 04:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 05:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 04:46 pm (UTC)As long as the rules are posted and what qualifies and what doesn't I agree with you.
What is bothersome is being told that these are the elite and not told why beyond that these are people we know and think are the best. And saying they write great plots with no SPaG is not helpful in choosing what to read or not.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 05:04 pm (UTC)But in any area that involves subjective decision making, you can't keep everyone happy all the time, no matter how clear the rules are. At some point personal judgement and taste is going to come into play. Writing and art are like gymnastics - it's not always about how high you can vault, it's also about whether the judge of the day likes the way you do it.
And things are only elite if we allow them to be in our own heads - nothing makes one archive more 'elite' than any other, except for the perceptions of the people participating and reading. Creative pastimes involve a fair amount of embedded emotional value, and this inevitably colours our reactions to how other react to what we produce.
One of the life lessons I was talking about is the one where we learn how to place our values on external opinions and our own sense of worth and satisfaction in what we achieve.
Sorry for the long winded response to your quick response. It's an imperfect world, full of imperfect situations. :D
no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 05:47 pm (UTC)To tell you the truth, I'm not sure why I'm even posting about this. I wasn't even aware of elite groups until recently. It was a little late for me as I'd already been in fandom for a while. When I became of aware of them, it did surprise me.
I just want to play ball and I'm hoping that others will too. My goal, though, is not be asked to be in one of these groups, but to actually write better and to entertain not just myself but others.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 05:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 06:33 pm (UTC)And your comment just made writing and posting stories worth it.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 05:15 pm (UTC)But the 'better' is the complicated bit. It's not a spelling B or a race that has a winner and loser.
So elite archives can't be viewed in the same way. They are simply a grouping of writers that meet some set of criteria determined by some group of people.
But grouping a bunch of talented people together can be very useful. And like you mentioned a very natural thing to want to do.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 05:17 pm (UTC)I do like and admire people who can use so many fewer words than I do and essentially say the same thing.
Agreed!
no subject
Date: 2008-10-15 05:31 pm (UTC)*head nods*