A side note

[blamebrampton]

Dear Americans,
Outside of your strange, strange country, most of the developed world has this marvellous thing which we like to call health care for all. I'm reading an interesting mpreg (that will teach me not to read the warnings!*) story from hd_hols and the poverty-stricken pregnant one is in despair as his health insurance will not cover it. On the off-chance it was written by someone on my flist, the good for society news is that in the UK, this is not the problem you might think it is! And I have my fingers crossed that in the US, it won't be for much longer, either.

(And if anyone is planning to respond telling me that socialised healthcare is evil, I will LAUGH AT YOU, and then I will QUOTE REAMS OF STATISTICS until you FLEE.)

XXX
BB

* And yes, my dislike of mpreg is not supported by the excellent writing that occurs within that genre and the imaginative plots that many superior writers bring to bear on the concept. But I still don't like it!

Comments

[uminohikari.livejournal.com]

...yeah, that's not going to happen in the US for a while. :| There are too many enemies of it.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Those enemies are EVIL and almost wholly in the pay or sway of huge corporations that care only for their bottom lines. I have this childlike hope that the combination of Obama and GFC will allow for a once-in-a-lifetime major cycle of change in the US that will see most of its citizens finally benefitting from the nation's potential.

[nqdonne.livejournal.com]

psst: socialised health care IS evil! :P :P :P (not joking, honestly -- I'm not a fan, and at least one point you have to concede is that the dentistry systems in socialized medicine systems aren't on par with the US system -- the dentistry I found in Germany was COMPLETELY useless).

Also, I beta read that story and TOLD the author that the UK has socialized medicine, so, yeah. Also, they're not American :P

[nqdonne.livejournal.com]

Oh, and also, the main thing is that socialized medicine is an unrealistic solution for the US given the size of our population, our pre-existing issues with our social security and work benefits system (aka: not enough people work/pay taxes to support our CURRENT systems), and with how deeply rooted we are in our current health care system. Sorry, it wouldn't work, and you can pry my health benefits from my cold, dead hands. LOL. This doesn't mean we don't need health care reform, but socialized health care is, regardless, NOT the solution for us.

Also, I HATE the film Sicko. Michael Moore is a dense moron who totally lacks nuance.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Dude, you have some 27,000 deaths per annum in your country because people do not have health insurance. You went to war over a number 1/9th that.

And the think that you're overlooking is that public health care systems function IN UNISON with private out here in the rest of the world. You can still pay for your (MUCH CHEAPER) health insurance and buy private dentistry if the public is no good. Or even just pay private rates when you need it since the public system keeps those rates from spiraling out of control.

:-P !!

[frantic-mice.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Dun liek Mpreg either. BUT! Yeah, I have read good Mpreg. Roma and Brumms and I think Oldie's wrote a fic I liked too, with mpreg in it. But. Yeah. Usually what I don't like in Mpreg is that it changes the characters into these peeps that I'm rly not interesting in knowing moar about. Instead of remaining individuals they become DAD and it's all about cuteness and stuff and the PASSION! and DRAMA just fizzles. Which is BULLCRAP cause family? It's intense. I think the Mpreg I've lieked was the one where the PEEPS weren't lost in the mechanics of the thing. 'Cause it's like Scifi somtiems, with the bolts and the POW POW and the ship and the action takes over and the characters are left behind. This happens in Mpreg, except when it doesn't. :)))))))))))))

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

'Cause it's like Scifi somtiems, with the bolts and the POW POW and the ship and the action takes over and the characters are left behind. This happens in Mpreg, except when it doesn't.

OMG, Mousie! That is the perfect explanation of why it makes me into crazy Brammers! It is as though you are inside my head! (Saying 'Good god, woman, when was the last time you tidied in here?')

[bryoneybrynn.livejournal.com]

Yes to all of the above!

And ha! Because I accidentally read an mpreg too. I was all "Fuck, they should really have warned for that!" and of course when I looked at the warnings it was there in CAPSLOCK!!! I think my brain just filtered it out as too traumatic to process. lol

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

HEE! We are reading too quickly! And our brains are highly trained to avoid the word mpreg!

[joanwilder.livejournal.com]

Having been a medical professional for the past 30 years, ten of them spent in the healthcare insurance industry, I'd have to say that the answer for us (the States) is not a universal healthcare system as you know it, but an amalgamation of employer funded/government assisted care. And here, care is care is NEVER denied in the case of mother deliveries/prenatal care/children's healthcare, nor is care required in an emergency room ever denied, REGARDLESS of insurance coverage. It's the law, and sometimes I think non-U.S. citizens have seen waaaaay too much of Michael Moore's rubbish. Both my husband and I have had cancer in the past five years: had either of us lived in Canada or the U.K., given their treatment modalities/wait times, we'd both be dead by now. The plans currently on the table for universal healthcare right now are all employer assisted plan, and would not preclude private contribution.

I made a short post about this issue a while back. You can see it here. I won't tell you universal healthcare is evil, but I will say that expecting the universal application of it as a workable fix in the U.S. is laughable.

[annafugazzi.livejournal.com]

Both my husband and I have had cancer in the past five years: had either of us lived in Canada or the U.K., given their treatment modalities/wait times, we'd both be dead by now.
Eeeeep... as a Canadian who has seen ::counting up:: four people deal with cancer, is married to a doctor, and has been following this in the news for lo these many years, this kind of statement doesn't sit terribly well with me. We do have wait times, it's true; one of my kids had to wait six months to get tubes put in his ears, and my mom had to wait for months to see a back specialist for her back pain. But for life and death situations? The stats don't bear out the claims, but few people bother to check them out.

Eg, Paul Tsongas, who ran for President in the eighties, apparently had a standard comeback to queries as to whether he supported universal healthcare or not: he said that he didn't, because he was a cancer survivor, and was only alive because the US had no socialized health care. In a system like Canada's, he claimed, he not only would've had to wait way too long to get the treatment he needed; the treatment itself would've come courtesy of the States, since Canadian doctors, being mere civil servants, didn't do the kind of groundbreaking research in Canada that they did in the States.

Americans heard and believed, and repeated his words all over the place. The irony of it was, not only would Tsongas have been just fine if he'd been sick in Canada; he would've been given the same treatment whether he was a Senator or a garbageman, and - and this was the part that made me see red - he would've been treated with the same treatment he received in the States, which was developed at a hospital in Toronto.

I know our health care system isn't perfect; I hear all about it from my partner. But a lot of the time what I read about its supposed ills from Americans bears little or no resemblance to the system I know. Wait times for non-essentials and scarcity of doctors and nurses up north? Yeah, guilty, absolutely. But... the government dictating which family doctor you get? Um... what? Doctors forced to describe your medical secrets to the government in order to get paid? Uh, no. No medical research of any note? Sorry, wrong there too.

I'd love to read your post, above, but can't see it. Here's a random post re. the other side of Canadian health care (woefully out of date, but still relevant in some areas, and certainly less inflammatory and innacurate than Sicko ;))

http://www.newrules.org/journal/nrwin01health.html

[romaine24.livejournal.com]

Well we don't really know how St. Mungo's works. Even though Britain might have socialized medicine doesn't mean the wizarding world would. And, I don't think Draco would be trotting into Muggleland for help. *snicker*

However, I agree about us dear Americans. *sigh*

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

True, though if they are going to embrace treacle tart, I can't see them having a private-only health care system ;-) Even in the 18th century there were plenty of charity hospitals!

I only worry because I love you all so and am permanently outraged about your short holidays and polluted waterways.

[angela-snape.livejournal.com]

I don't understand the appeal of mpreg, myself. But - that hasn't stopped me from dabbling in writing it, and enjoying a well-written mpreg fic. But I certainly don't seek it out.

PS... what do you blame Brampton for?

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Gillian Brampton dragged me into fandom with her wily little tales and cheery 'it's good for you, it won't take up all your free time' chats. LIES! (though it is good for me.)

There is very good stuff out there, I am the first to admit, but yes, like you, I do not seek it out.

[azurelunatic]

Ha, I saw that one. And I read it, too!

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I'm still reading it, there's some real talent in the writing, though I keep having to make myself read all the preggers detail. I like babies, but I like them over there until they are three or four and interesting ;-)

[beatnikspinster.livejournal.com]

Good grief, mpreg and American healthcare politics?! You firestarter, you. ;)
*removes self to a safe distance*

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I KNOW! Also, I think Obama is hot without his shirt on AND that the Pope is a raging hypocrite for condemning transvestism while wearing that frock!

Now THAT should keep the snowed-in types warm for a while ;-)

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

Oh my god. *starts reading warnings very carefully*

I have no idea if the quality or writing is generally good or bad in mpreg stories, because I NEVER READ IT. *shudders for a bit longer than is strictly decent*

And, you know, living in the UK and having the NHS as a given is so awesome. I can't even tell you.

And coming across an error like that in a fic would make me stop reading instantly.

But I don't like Michael Moore either.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

I NEVER READ IT.
Oh! That makes me sad.

There are some truly excellent fic out there that get skipped because of the Mpreg warning.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

1) Was that the Charlie/Draco Mpreg? I quite adored it.

2) Speaking of Health Care issues. I quite like the aussie version. Being friends with an Australian Doctor, I was treated to many a discussion on how Canada's HC issues could be solved by the Aussie model.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

THERE'S CHARLIE/DRACO MPREG????!! It's true, you really can find everything on the internet, and now my brain is scarred.

Yes, I have to say that the Aussie version is pretty good. I like its balance of public and private options, and the fact that the mix keeps costs down in both sectors. Fingers crossed your pollies give it a look!

[meredyth-13.livejournal.com]

Without intending any offence to any US citizens who may glance past this comment - I think the only thing sadder and more scary than the state of health care in the US of A is the fact that US citizens actually do defend it and get angry if you dare suggest that allowing people to die for want of medicine or treatment might not be the best possible system.

*headdesk*

*hugs you* - btw - mpreg? No, it's not my thing either, although as you say, there's been some damned good writing in the genre, and I have been known to peruse the odd piece if sufficiently well rec'd.

[silentauror.livejournal.com]

I agree with this exactly. Canada's system is not great, but it's a hell of a lot better than the US's! I've lived there without insurance, and it's ugly! As I will always be poor, yet always be paying taxes, I'm delighted that I don't have to pay for something I've taken for granted all my life as a human right. The fact that people have to pay to see doctors in other places was one of the most horrifying things I ever learned as a child!

Agreed on the mpreg front, too. Not the part about reading it on purpose, ever - just that I agree that there are good things written within the genre. I despise the genre itself, however. Ditto for creature!fic and any number of other things. Just picky. :D

[empress-jae.livejournal.com]

you read mpreg? o_O i thought we talked about this...

:P

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

It's not badly written, but I have had to run away from the story twice now, just back from Ikea! New shelves!!

[grey-hunter.livejournal.com]

LOL This post is great. XD

Go research!

Mmmm now I'm looking forward to reading that fic, cos: yay mpreg! :D

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Hee! You will like it! I am not sure about it yet because I am only halfway through, but it's mpreg and I am still reading, so the author has done something right!

[sesheta-66.livejournal.com]

** SPOILER COMMENT **

Hmm. If that's the hd_hols fic I'm thinking of, I kinda read it as the wizarding community introducing a law to deny DEs treatment, not as a lack of universal health care (more a retraction of it for a certain segment of society). And given the person, he wouldn't know about the UK Muggle system, nor could he go there because he's a guy, and he required magical treatment. So it didn't throw me out at all.

** END SPOILER **

As a Canadian, I can't imagine having to pay for healthcare. It's just something that's always there. Is it mis-managed? Hell, the finances are run by the government. Of course it is! But are people dying from waiting too long? I don't believe it. I haven't seen evidence of that, despite some rumours. Do mistakes happen? Sure they do. Is it devastating for those involved? Of course. But I don't see a direct correlation between UHC and that.

I've known many people who've been treated for cancer, etc., and have received phenomenal treatment here. Without having to go south of the border. Occasionally, the wait requires treatment elsewhere (out of the city/province/country), but in my experience that's the exception, not the rule.

I won't presume to know how the US system works, but the idea of going broke, losing my house, or losing all I've worked for just to stay alive/healthy is scary to me.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yeah, agree with you on that last paragraph!

It probably is the same fic, and that is an interesting interpretation of the idea. What pulled me up was the word 'insurance', if they had said that the character would not be able to afford to pay, I don't think I would have had an issue with it because I'd have probably made the same reading leaps that you did. I'll go with yours!

[old-enough.livejournal.com]

I was born in the US, but haven't lived there for a long time--Denmark is home. I still don't understand the US's horror of national healthcare or anything else remotely socialized, or that they can claim that it doesn't work.

I've been seriously ill here and there--no significant difference in the quality of the care, although here I have to push a bit more and there I have to resist a bit the things I felt were unnecessary. The difference was that there I was faced with mountains of paper and invoices (fortunately paid mostly by insurance) that had truly amazing figures that were followed by stunning numbers of zeros. I have never seen an invoice or any paper other than explanations of what was wrong and how they treated it. Oh, except for I did have to pay a small amount for a private phone in my hospital room here, but that was a cash transaction carried out by my husband at the phone company kiosk down in the hospital lobby.

Incidentally, I was in the UK last summer when I had a bad accident right at the beginning of a month long holiday. The NHS did not live up to its reputation at all. The care I received from the moment I staggered through the Accident and Casualty room's door was all I could ask for. Yes Danish hospitals are more modern and more "electronic" but I hardly felt like the treatment was sub-standard and when I did eventually make it home, the doctors here were seriously impressed with the work that had been done. And again, not a single invoice and not even a question of whether I had insurance.

The Scandinavian economies (outside of Iceland which has pretty much gone its own way since the second world war) are relatively healthy even in these dark financial days, the welfare state isn't under serious threat and still the US insists that nothing socialized can ever even begin to possibly work. Denmark has no national debt (and yes we have troops fighting in the middle east too). As I said before, I just can't begin to understand the mindset that insists that what we do can't possibly work.

Now, if we could just do something about what I see as the institutionalized racism/ethnicism of the the national government here AND if we could get over our national schizophrenia about the EU (come on guys, we are either in or we are out! It really doesn't work when we try to swim both ways at the same time), I might actually think that we were doing a pretty good job of governing ourselves.

[alienor77310.livejournal.com]

Same error happens in het fic. Hermione/Ginny/OFC gets preggers and/or sick and can't afford healthcare.

And I love socialised healthcare too. Ours (French) is far from perfect, but it is free or nearly so (free if you can't afford complementary insurance) and mostly efficient.

[astarael02.livejournal.com]

Woo!! (I don't know how to show how much I agree. "Hear hear"?)

I'm too lazy to find the posts below that actually argue, but I'm proud of living in a country where everyone is entitled to the same level of medical care. *supresses imminent rant before it comes out*

Also, I know the NHS in britain has some problems, and for some people NHS dentists are hard to find, but I've found that the healthcare system is a lot better than you'd think by listening to the media. I had an operation in April, not even an urgent one at all, and the waiting list was less than three months (I was surprised how quickly it all happened actually, I was expecting to wait a year or two!), I had appointments with the consultant, blood tests to make sure I was healthy enough for the operation, lots of the most lovely and friendly nurses I've ever met, and I felt like I was being cared for properly the whole time. And this was in a hospital far "up north".

The only thing that maybe wouldn't have happened in the US if I had lots of money was that I had the op in the morning so that by early afternoon I'd have recovered from the anaesthetic, they could check that I was OK and my mum could take me home for the night and bring me back in the morning for another checkup, thus avoiding the need to take up a hospital bed overnight. But it was completely unnecessary after all and I was an outpatient, so I wasn't bothered by that at all. I was treated wonderfully.

Also, I don't like mpreg either. I don't have any interest whatsoever in stories where a character being pregnant is an important part of the plot, since pregnancy in general is not a pleasant process and I dont like the "growing up and having babies and being a lovey dovey family" kind of stories. So why make it possible for a man to be pregnant just so you can have the same kind of plot points in a slash story??

[pingrid.livejournal.com]

I don't know the American system in enough detail to be able to work out how to fix it, but I think it's pretty obvious what DOESN'T work: being dependent upon having the right employer to get proper medical treatment without going personally bankrupt. Especially in a country where workers' rights aren't entirely up to scratch. I can't believe anyone who doesn't have the pure luck to have such benefits through employment would argue against some model of socialised health care.

Sure, you can't just plop any old country's system onto the US and expect it to work, but there isn't the person alive who can convince me that the current US system is the best a resourceful country like the US can to with the huge amounts of money it uses on health care!

[romaine24.livejournal.com]

I have wonderful benefits from my employer. However, what this does is handcuff me (golden handcuffs) to this job. There's only a few companies in my area that have equal or better benefits. It's ridiculous.

If we could get these benefits off the employers books, companies wouldn't be failing and they could actually keep their promise of paying pensions to their retired employees.

It would also be a boon to those who want to be self-employed or start their own business.

My neighbor down the street suffers from dibilitating migraines. I mean she has maybe 1 good day out of the week. Anyway, there was an experimental operation (won't go into details) and the insurance wouldn't cover it. They offered to pay cash but no doctor in the US would do it because of a possible malpractice case. They flew to England and paid cash. It only helped a little, unfortunately. So it shows that even with money, the US cannot provide everything because of malpractise reasons. *sigh*

[arobynsung]

Unfortunately, in the U.S., cooperations tend to have our Congress in a choke-hold. It'd be great to have, if it was correctly regulated and run (which in itself is hard to manage) but it would mean a lot of congress members finding their balls. Quite the task for them let me tell you.

[enchanted-jae.livejournal.com]

*leaps to defend the honor of gift!fic* Heh. I'm an American, so I guess that part didn't bother me in that shit like that actually happens here. It bothered me that it happened to Draco, but not in a way that jolted me out of the fic. Also, I'm going to presume my mystery author was writing from the standpoint of wizarding UK, which clearly does not have standardized health care. *nods; grins*

I, too, hope that the US gets its collective head out of its ass some time soon and provides health care for all. The major stumbling block has been, and continues to be, the lobbying of the powerful health insurance companies. Where would they be if we didn't need them? That's not to defend them at all; merely stating that their interests are a main reason why standardized health care in America has not seen the light of day. Yet.

Once you've solved our health care crisis, please turn your attention to getting sex education in our schools, because that is sadly lacking, too.

America is very strange and absurd. *nods*

[thisgirl-is.livejournal.com]

I am in snowy Canadia at the moment. The day after I arrived my sniffly cold turned into a full blown chest infection and my brother packed me off to the doctor. $210CAN later I had antibiotics. Let's have that again. $210. NHS FTW.

Also, I am clearly not yet caught up to the mpreg. *eyes unread fics and unviewed pics* *wonders whether to bother with the mpreg*

Also also, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. My internet access has been sketchy for the last week or so. I'm a little behind on these things.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

It's all good! In my head it is still September, so Christmas wishes any time before the end of Jan count! A VERY happy New Year to you my quiet friend who should commit more fic!

$210?? I went fully private (the private doctor is closest) for the mild pneumonia I developed after I came home from Italy and it cost me $55 including antibiotics. I'd get $32 of that back if I could be arsed to fill in a form ... (wonders where self put form)

NHS FTW indeed!

They do warn for mpreg, so you can steer clear if you'd like! The one I was reading had some really good ideas but I think the writer rather ran out of go towards the end, however I had the sense that she was young and possibly not from an English-speaking background, and even not considering it was still a good effort with some very fine passages of writing in the first half.