blamebrampton | Parla Inglese?

Parla Inglese?

frantic_mice pushed me in the direction of

fanficrants (which I can see lasting another week on my watch list, if that). One of the more interesting of the many rants was from someone who, in essence, said 'Look, we live in a globalised age, is it really the case that reading American spellings in a fic set in the UK and vice-versa is worth making that much of a fuss about?'

And I have to agree. I can easily overlook gotten and alright if no one over the age of 20 cries and if people only talk about their deepest feelings when they are in extremis. But for some, including a long list of commenters, there are certain Americanisms that are like a dictionary to the 43rd President of the USA and have them running at first sight.

I can somewhat sympathise, because I can find it very hard to read when characters start acting American, talking at great length about their emotions and so on. While I adore my American friends, my closest ones know that they will receive one brief hug on meeting and departure, and I will probably never tell them any of my deepest feelings. Which is not because I don't love them, but because deepest feelings are only for personal perusal so that no innocent souls will become aware of the full extent of my inner lunacy.

But for spelling and so on ... well, I regularly read books and magazines published in America and sometimes set in the UK or elsewhere in the English speaking world, and I cope with them. In fact, the YA novel I just finished changed spellings depending on whether scenes were set in New York or Sydney and it read as very very odd indeed (though it's a good novel). Dealing with such spelling anomalies is commonplace: most of you do the same.

I do like a good Britpick for things like truck/lorry, stall/cubicle, Christmas eggnog/three bottles of decent whisky and hiding in the stables, and were I writing fic set in the US, I would make certain that my characters said Dude and asked for the check. However, my authorial voice would still sound like me, which I believe is appropriate. Wodehouse and Conan Doyle both have long sections of novels (Psmith, Journalist and The Valley of Fear respectively) set in the US where they follow this rule, and these were great successes on both sides of the Atlantic.

All of which is my lengthy way of saying, I can cope perfectly well if you're an American and you write alright, color and aluminum. But if you could hold off on having the lads say 'I love you so much, sweetie, that sometimes I just want to cry'*, I would take it as a personal favour.

Finally, HAPPY BIRTHDAY

suonguyen !

*If you have actually written a fic that contains this line, obviously it worked well in the incredibly clever context you created for it.

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I'm not really bothered by the spelling, as English isn't my first language and I rarely even notice it. Unless it is misspelled badly and the grammar is awful of course, but that I usually notice within the first three sentences. Which leads to not reading the fic, and thus missing the weepy emo boys, thank goodness.

What does annoy me is the trousers/pants thing. For me, as for most Brits, pants are your underthings and trousers go over that. So when someone wipes his hand on his pants (minds out of the gutter!) this makes me go 'huh?'. It becomes glaringly obvious in Torchwood fic, where one character is an 'American' and the others are Welsh. Only the really good authors can make the distinction between them.

Anyway, I agree with you! It just took me a while to say.

like a dictionary to the 43rd President of the USA

This made me laugh out loud. ♥

Or 'Mam'. The very first change to 'Mom' in the US edition of PS is Ron talking about his 'Mam' - made me wonder whether Bloomsbury shouldn't have published Scottish, Yorkshire, London and Cornish versions, as well as the Welsh one...

I never had any problems understanding the American text of Edward Eager's stories when I was a kid.

Aluminum? What do you call it?

So _that's_ why it's called hd_holidays! =O

X-D

I believe that would be: aluminium

Pronounced: al - u - mih - nee - um

Though I'm no expert, being that I'm not a Brit.

aluminium.

I still pronounce it that way after 9 years in the U.S. Eh.
Not like it's an everyday word like refrigerator =P

Wow, I totally missed knowing this. Did I miss making the filter?

Congrats and no wonder you were so sick the first few months. I hope you're feeling a bit better now.

Amazing, just amazing!

*major hugs*

Aha, I didn't notice the 'i' on the first read. Ignore my other comment!

That's..a really weird pronunciation. *tries to say it out loud*

my closest ones know that they will receive one brief hug on meeting and departure

Ahahahah me too X-D
One semi-lingering hug on meeting and departure, in my case.
This includes any family member I haven't seen in years and live continents away =P

And the "Get a grip of yourself, we're British!" scenario provides much amusement for me, idk.
e.g. Peter getting sentimental with Edmund before battle and Edmund being all OMGStopItNowPls D:

X-D

...and the word "aluminum" sounds like it'll need crutches. Or smth D:

Calculus proposals FTW!

The kids will grow up solving math problems to find hidden Christmas presents?

X-D

It's kind of a tight-rope act, anyway, if truth be told. The fact is, no matter how diligent an American writer/editor is, there's bound to be some sort of 'tell' that would signal to a Brit they're dealing with a non-Brit author. Simply because we are not British, we do not have the delightful turns of phrase down pat, or the history that makes using them second nature.

Of course the reverse is true, as well.

Beyond that, I would feel extremely silly trying to write in a British voice, like I was trying to fool people into believing I was sitting in England while writing it. Some sort of poser.

And furthermore (and this is one of the reasons I de-friended HP Britglish), I've discovered that a lot of it is regional (the same is absolutely true of the US colloquialisms too), and a person could go insane trying to pull that off successfully.

That's not to say I won't use the obvious Brit-glish. In fact, years of doing this HP fandom thing and I've expunged 'gotten' from vocabulary completely and cringe when I read it. And I've adopted some things (like s's for possessive: Severus's) because it just makes sense.

*shrugs* I suppose if it really bothers someone, they could always opt out of fics written by non-Brits and avoid the trouble all together.

While I heartily agree with you about the crying/flowery expressions of love fics, I have to wonder about it being strictly an American affliction. I know that, by and large, Americans tend to be rather expressive, but I've never read anything that makes me believe that sort of story is solely a product of the US.

'Cos seriously?

That sort of fic makes me gag (it is, in fact, listed prominently on my 'squicks' list for fests). And I'm not so stupid that I'd list names here, but I know there are Brit authors out there who've come up with stuff like that (one in particular comes to mind that I normally avoid whenever possible). To be fair, there are quite a few ESL authors out there that lean that way too. Perhaps it seems so completely American because there are so many of us churning out fics, making the potential larger?

As for hugging friends---has it never occurred to you that you might be particularly huggable? Because I've lived in the US for 41 years and the huggy-touchy people in my life have been very few and far between. Have no fear, when we meet, you will not be molested unduly. *winks*

Edited 2009-01-17 20:51 (UTC)

I've ranted about British/American spellings before and even slashed at the non-use of the extra vowels or the use of 'ize' words instead of 'ise' when beta'ing a fic. As time goes on however, I find that those things don't annoy me so much as 'mom'. It makes my stomach clench (only in HP. In other fic it's probably appropriate though unless I am writing fic in an American fandom or using American characters, I'd never use it).

My biggest problem is my beta pointing out Australianisms in my work. D'oh. Oh, sorry that should read 'Crikey'. lol. Or to be British, 'Bollocks'. In my efforts to try and make the dialogue flow naturally, I sometimes use figures of speech that are more Australian than British. Like "Too bloody right." I think it's made me see that at times we just don't realise that some sayings are culturally specific, no matter how much we try. I grew up with British spelling, in country that has its roots in Great Britain, but I am not British and therefore will never ever sound completely British.

And then again, I had two Brits pick my work on one fic and one said a phrase I'd used was not British and the other said it's used all the time in England, so you get that infusion of words and terms that cross the ocean and become ingrained in everyday modern usage anyway.

So, I like the more mellow approach I'm learning, and reckon that bloody bonza writing beats you beaut Pommy spelling any day. *g*

Since English isn't my first language, I go by the rule that if a HP fic seems too American to me, it is indeed too American. US spelling doesn't bother me, but if British characters "sound" American even to my foreign ears, I'll start looking for the back button.

SO much word on the emotions thing! (It's not just a fanfic matter for me - I have been scarred for life by dubbed US soaps where family members keep telling each other in everyday conversation how much they love each other. The mere thought of a member of my family doing that in my presence makes me want to die from sheer embarrassment.) Like you said, the confession of feelings is for extreme situations only, and IMO these kinds of situations already exclude flowery declarations ;)

You're on the filter now! *hugs* Click the tag "pregnancy filter" on my LJ for the whole story.

I am still sick, exhausted, and have little appetite, but I have medication preventing me from excessive vomiting and I am starting to feel better. Next week is the 10th. :)

Yes, I think that's likely. ;)

I like my Brits to be Brits and Americans to be themselves as well... spelling - I can cope (just) as long as it isn't anything heinous like a Brit calling their mother "Mom"..... but you are correct - its how they act and speak that is the more important thing to have right.
The thing I really like about the British is the lack of drama - give me a stiff British upper lip in a crisis anyday! And what's with the hugging stuff - you know I honestly don't recall seeiggn you hug many people.... I certainly don't (and thank buddha my american friends all seem to be able to cope with that) - and I'm not even British! - Just colonial :)

Oh little Mousie, with her sword raised high! I agree with you to an extent, entirely over spelling, which I can wholly cope with, but less so over situations and common and brand names, etc, which stick out more. Though truck, aluminum and stall will all be less of a point for me as a reader than 'Hi, we've just met, here's my life story and I lurve you!'

Since this mornin I've realized I'm moar bothered by hao peeps deal wit being bothered than what they're bothered wit. If that makes sense. I told Pie mebe I shouldn't have written that comment here because I agree with you and you didn't do any of the things I was ranting about. BUT! Mebe that's why I felt okays with saying it here.

I would say that. Hmmm. Well. I have a hard time believing that ANYBODY rly does: 'Hi, we've just met, here's my life story and I lurve you!'

Except mebe Hollywood actors who seem to just meet one person and hang around them liek 2 weeks and "fall in love" and then get married and divorced in a year. I dun't find that type of thing believable. Mebe people in some cultures are less effusive than others but. When I see characters behave that way I think it's either bad writin' (the author is having the characters TELL each other everythin so they dont have to go through the bother of showing) or that the emotions are so superficial they're easily contained with wordage or somfin. Not sure if you get my meaning.

When people say too much it makes me feel like they're trying to buy intimacy from each other. EASY intimacy. Liek, here I'll show you this about myself and I'll trust you with this so that there's a bond btw. AND! It might be liek a totes artificial bond çause it didn't come through chemistry and time and effort, just from the quick gratification stylin of CONFESHON. Characters who act this way dunt make me think oh yes true lovage.

RAMBLERAMBLE RAMBLE BLAH BLAH BLAH. *g* Not sure what my point is nao.

Yes ... I can see my car-crash level of interest lasting a very short time. Though I've taught someone how to type tricky punctuation, so my time was not wasted ;-)

And you make an excellent point about going too far down the Brit path with slang! I usually try to pull back a little, or have things that are easily understood in context, because there are any number of slang terms that I end up looking blankly at, too, given that no one in my comfortable South-East England world would ever say such things.

I think that eggnog vs whisky is something that I'd notice but not care deeply about in a fic. Having characters act like soap opera characters is something that would be much more obvious (you don't!) and much more likely to make me stop reading.

And if something horrible has happened: death, threats to children, loss of all worldly possessions, it's all right for the boys to have a little cry. They would probably pretend they hadn't afterwards ;-)

That would be worth reading!

Did I ever tell you about my traumatic experience with coming face to, well, cock with surprisingly naked people while swimming underwater in a German hotel pool when I was 14? I wish they'd have sent us some cute ones! :D

Might not be if you're writing in your first language - believe me when I say it can be easy to get mixed up when it's your second! :D

Oh Ping! Only you ...

Sends hugs! (Any flat news?)

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Parla Inglese?

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hugs

aluminium, aluminum

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