blamebrampton | Parla Inglese?

Parla Inglese?

frantic_mice pushed me in the direction of

fanficrants (which I can see lasting another week on my watch list, if that). One of the more interesting of the many rants was from someone who, in essence, said 'Look, we live in a globalised age, is it really the case that reading American spellings in a fic set in the UK and vice-versa is worth making that much of a fuss about?'

And I have to agree. I can easily overlook gotten and alright if no one over the age of 20 cries and if people only talk about their deepest feelings when they are in extremis. But for some, including a long list of commenters, there are certain Americanisms that are like a dictionary to the 43rd President of the USA and have them running at first sight.

I can somewhat sympathise, because I can find it very hard to read when characters start acting American, talking at great length about their emotions and so on. While I adore my American friends, my closest ones know that they will receive one brief hug on meeting and departure, and I will probably never tell them any of my deepest feelings. Which is not because I don't love them, but because deepest feelings are only for personal perusal so that no innocent souls will become aware of the full extent of my inner lunacy.

But for spelling and so on ... well, I regularly read books and magazines published in America and sometimes set in the UK or elsewhere in the English speaking world, and I cope with them. In fact, the YA novel I just finished changed spellings depending on whether scenes were set in New York or Sydney and it read as very very odd indeed (though it's a good novel). Dealing with such spelling anomalies is commonplace: most of you do the same.

I do like a good Britpick for things like truck/lorry, stall/cubicle, Christmas eggnog/three bottles of decent whisky and hiding in the stables, and were I writing fic set in the US, I would make certain that my characters said Dude and asked for the check. However, my authorial voice would still sound like me, which I believe is appropriate. Wodehouse and Conan Doyle both have long sections of novels (Psmith, Journalist and The Valley of Fear respectively) set in the US where they follow this rule, and these were great successes on both sides of the Atlantic.

All of which is my lengthy way of saying, I can cope perfectly well if you're an American and you write alright, color and aluminum. But if you could hold off on having the lads say 'I love you so much, sweetie, that sometimes I just want to cry'*, I would take it as a personal favour.

Finally, HAPPY BIRTHDAY

suonguyen !

*If you have actually written a fic that contains this line, obviously it worked well in the incredibly clever context you created for it.

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I tend to find Canadian writing quite easy to read. And I have to say that I am probably much more relaxed on this than I would have been 20 years ago, since I've spent the last 15 living abroad and editing publications from around the English speaking world. But I like to think that something that was concerned with the sensibility would have always been enough to make me happy. I don't need people to fake-Brit for me ;-)

I think this is a perfectly acceptable usage. As I say above, the spellings are never really enough to jolt me out of something. It's the overt things, like slang, that would. BTW, Ficrants has a strange fascinating quality at first; all these people so upset over so little ...

Hey you - you're up! Too hot again? I was wondering about that, actually: wasn't the point of having houses that are uselessly cold in winter that they would be good in summer? I would have thought that good insulation would fix both those problems. But then again I've never built a house!

Flat news are unfortunate. :/ I dropped out when the bid came up to 2,3 mill. BUT! If it stopped there I might still be interested, and I completely lack the English vocabulary to explain how I might still snag it but it has to do with maybe having been a member of something that may or may not translate as a building society for longer than the winning bidders. Phew, long sentence! Certainly longer than the mentioned cock. (See how I cleverly brought us back to the original topic in a smooth and effortless fashion? :D )

Harry did cry after Dumbledore's death did he? Trying to remember :)

From reading your fic, I never get the feel that you're deliberately trying to get a British feel. It's so very natural to read. :) There are fics that, IMHO, use way too much "bollocks", "Shite", and "bloody"... it's British, but not gentlemenly, and I love my men to be very cordial. :)

Yes, jumping on people is always uncool. I am probably the worst Britpicker in the world because I change mom to mum and pants to trousers automatically, but am wholly relaxed about things like 'Harry decided that was enough for the day, and he should just chill now.'

And rants are always fine and acceptable at Chez Brammers! This is a safe ranting place!

As I say, spelling doesn't really bother me much, certainly it bothers me less than people jumping on others re spelling. Anyone acting like an American soap opera character gives me the heebie jeebies (I love that phrase), but then, so do soap operas! I blame them for the whole LURVE thing you're talking about above. I think you love someone when you'll clean up their snot when they have the flu, not when you just want to shag them ;-)

Rambling is fine, too! XXX

He's teary several times in canon, IIRC. And teenagers just are! It never bothers me when it's young muppets. As they get older, there should be alcohol involved, or deep embarrassment later ;-)

And YES! Wholly agree with you on the swearing!

Do you want me to link you?

I will anyways:

http://community.livejournal.com/fanficrants/7700254.html#cutid1

Spellpick has long been a peeve of mine. I think it's ridiculous. It first came up for me when I was participating in a fandom for a US TV show. People would pick on non-US english speakers for not using US spellings. So it's not just a pick on the Americans phenomena. Spelling shouldn't matter in most cases. An example of an exception would be Hermione in a Spelling Bee saying "C*O*L*O*R" instead of "C*O*L*O*U*R." Hermione, as a British character, should spell things the way a British person would. But if the person writing about her is from the US, there's no need for him to spell things like his character would just because he is writing about her. He shouldn't put Americanisms in a British character's mouth; but he doesn't have to pretend he's British just because he's writing about British characters. Does that make any sense?

Now I'm not certain about extending it to regional expressions in narration. To me though, while Mrs. Weasley should say, "Leave the car in the car park, Arthur," I'm not sure it's wrong to have it in the narration "Mr Weasley left his flying car in the station's parking lot."

The YA novel you mention seems to carry Spellpick to absurdity. What if the setting moved to Germany? Would the writer have to start writing in German? (Though it might be interesting to actually write a novel in multiple languages someday ... though the audience able to read it as intended would be a bit diminished.)

I LOVE YOU, because that is exactly it. ;)

Along the emotional thing too. I actually start cringing when characters start spouting such declarations, and public scenes make me very embarrassed.

I'm an American. I cringe at 'alright'. Why? BECAUSE IT'S SODDING INCORRECT. Just because two generations of illiterate morons have started spelling it that way does not make it RIGHT.

So... never mention emotions. Okay. Well that's shafted just about everything I've written.

Where do you get your interpersonal drama, then?

'I love you so much, sweetie, that sometimes I just want to cry'

Ick! No one says that in real life, I hope, no matter where they live.

Werd. It just looks wrong. But after having been chewed out on this once (with a dictionary cite, no less) when trying to beta someone's fic, I decided to pick my battles thereafter.

LOL thanks for the birthday wish! Oh and I like the sound of that community.

Edited 2009-01-18 06:36 (UTC)

i like this post a lot. generally, i don't have anything against seeing minor americanisms in hp fic - if it's a well-written story, i'm probably going to like it. however, chances are i'd enjoy it much more if it was properly britpicked b/c that gives fics a "genuine" feeling.

i can't STAND constant references to american culture unless the characters are in the US for some valid reason and are pointing out the differences, or making fun of the yanks, or something along those lines. it's so completely ANNOYING otherwise.

as for the emotional diarrhoea, i think that's a separate issue. i wouldn't find it in-character for the majority of the hp characters [esp. the male ones] to spout off about their feelings [unless it was dumbledore in his usual eccentric style].

Heee! Funnily enough, your characters act quite British a lot of the time. I don't think that faux Brit is the desired end point (it would lose so much of the vigour, wit and emotional depth of American writers for a start), just not obviously American.

I suppose, to reach for a dreadful analogy from popular culture, I'm talking about the difference in Buffy between Spike's English accent and Angel's Irish accent. You know that the actor playing Spike isn't English, but he sounds as though he's sat down and tried to think about what goes into the voice and mannerisms and then melded them with his own style to create something that is quite compelling and certainly not overly off-putting. While David Boreanaz's Irish accent makes me burst out in fits of giggles every time.

Making sense is entirely optional on this journal! Goodness knows I only manage it about 65% of the time ...

I quite agree with your point that:
I think it's better to try and get the basics right and have them acting like at least real human beings and not risk turning them into caricatures of British people.

And I must say that I was exaggerating for comedic effect. Though there are some fic writers out there who seem to have trained on soap operas. I would like to see them sent off to read Twain and watch The West Wing.

HEE! I always have to re-read those scenes to check if there was some undressing I missed. Though, shamefully, since I started working occasionally on fashion mags, even I have been known to say pants every now and then, or, far far worse, pant! But usually only in a sentence such as 'That's a lovely bias-cut polished cotton pant.' After which I hit myself soundly.

Glad I gave you a giggle ;-) Your icon did the same for me!

Quite right!

It's all Humphry Davy's fault. You can read a v good discussion of the issue here: http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm

You mentioned something that made me think of Skandar Keynes! Argh! He is the reason I am going straight to hell, do not pass go! He is so astonishingly pretty and so terribly, terribly young! ARGH! I had sensible things to say but now I have to go and have a cold drink before I come over entirely Germaine Greer!

You're right that it's not strictly American. I think it's mostly young writers, though young American writers seem to have it worse, due to having grown up with dreadful TV for the most part. This is a travesty of the way Things Should Be, because time was that the US had all the best TV. In the last 10 years, only niche shows seem to have great writing, including The West Wing and Battlestar Galactica. While dross that looks and sounds like snappier versions of soap operas is everywhere.

That said, there are middle-aged British writers who do it, too. However, I choose to believe they are also streaming The Bold and The Beautiful ;-)

One thing that does read American to me is when characters leap into personal revelation, telling each other their deepest darkest secrets and explaining their motivations because of things that have happened to them. It also reads as My Therapist Says Writing Is Good For me.

I suspect that H/D land may be scarier than mostly Snarry land, which is the single-malt drinking, Economist reading, grown-up section of fandom ;-)

I want more non-hugging Americans like you! Most of them want to hug me and squeeze me and call me George!

It was morning! I went out and did things, whole new world!

You would think that my house would manage to be either warm all year or cool all year, alas, manages both at the wrong times. And because we went out, the air conditioner is not installed and a new heatwave is expected this week. Expect whining!

BUGGER about the flat, but fingers crossed that it either comes to you in the end or is because a much better one is lurking around the corner for you!

Also, penis!

But it was early morning, and it's the weekend! Very odd behaviour, this waking up early and doing things. ;)

Mm yes, well insulated houses tend to do the opposite and be warm in winter and cool in summer. I blame the Brits for your plight - for some reason that trick where you put enough things into the walls and roof has never seemed to catch on over there. But those draughty houses, of course, must be why British women appear to be more or less fine with walking about virtually naked in winter, and so the male-dominated building industry lacks incentive to change! ;)

And thanks, darling! It's no catastrophe about the flat - I'm not desperate to move, so it's all good. That balcony was nice, though!

Penis!

Well, yes, of course! I am English, so I was applying the example to myself. Although some may argue whether or not Americans speak English ...

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Parla Inglese?

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Re: hugs

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