Hey, Americans ...

[blamebrampton]

Do you ever use forms of cliché other than plain old cliché? Such as clichéd or clichés? I see it used in a manner that I would consider wrong so often that I am wondering if it is one of those wacky idioms that English develops up all around the world. Or it could just be young people today with their emo music and Twittering ...

Comments

[suttonwriter.livejournal.com]

"That university had a bad policy, yours was better."

It seemed like it at the time, but it doesn't match how language works. Since I want my students to be able to adapt to different situations, I try to avoid making my personal language gripes reasons for lower grades.

That need for adaptation is probably why I've never noticed how you use quotation marks in your fic. It's like using commas with items in a series: some context say put one before the last items, others say no. As long as a writer is consistent and follows the rules of the context in which they write, I try to ignore it. (Plus, I try to read fanfiction for fun, not like an English teacher :) ).

[aliciajd]

I've noticed the dropping of the d and s by writers in the HP fandom, but I just thought it was a misguided attempt at British usage. It looks very wrong when ever I see it. As a 59 year old American with a long-ago degree in English, I would use the d and s in the same manner as you would.

[drgaellon]

Drugged should be first set fire to, then the ashes stomped on ;-)

No, no, there are times when "drugged" is perfectly correct. For instance, the past simple of "to drug." To wit: "I took a codeine pill, and now I feel drugged."

"Clichéd" and "clichés" both seem correct, though I want to stick a second 'e' into the first one. I gather that in French, "cliché" is an adjective, not an adverb (in the first case) or a noun (in the second)?

[mabonwitch.livejournal.com]

I am both young and American, but perhaps am no longer "youth" because emo music, Twitter, and incorrect use of the word "cliche" bother me...

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's fine, but we were specifically talking about as an irregular for for the past tense of drag.

And yes, the word did have a different usage in French to English, which is why errors by French writers writing in English don't bother me, I am as forgiving as the French and Italians have always been over my erratic verb placement in their languages ;-)

[grey-hunter.livejournal.com]

Not American but when I IM with Kes (who is American) and say something like "that's just so cliché" she always corrects me that it's clichéd. *shrugs*

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I don't think we can blame the Americans for much of it on the world stage before the early 20th century, though. I thought they restricted themselves to Central America up to that point.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I can accept gotten from Americans even though it's ugly, because it comes from a rational formation. Acclimate is just wacky, though. And hurrah for proper endings!

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I received a text this evening from a friend to let me know she had found some very fine zombie horses in the artworks of the castle she is visiting. I immediately thought of you.

As it turns out, there are many Americans who still believe in finishing words to mark different usage, this heartens me!

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

Oh well if we're going to be all reasonable and stuff.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

You are still part of the youth, just not the annoying part ;-)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

That's because Kes is a Great Human Being. And you're allowed to say the odd thing wackily ;-)

[calanthe-fics.livejournal.com]

True - it's just a few people, I know.

http://www.noisebot.com/hay_fever_t-shirt.htm?gclid=CPez-8nSh5sCFZwA4wodtRK1og

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

After this month of wedding present and frock-induced penury, I think I will have to splurge on those!

[grey-hunter.livejournal.com]

Of course is. :) But no, I am not allowed. Or else, I'll make the same mistake in fic and that's unforgivable. >:[

[mific.livejournal.com]

Dangerous to get us going on a grammar thread, as evidenced above!
Clichés and clichéd for me.
The other thing I frequently have to grit my teeth and bear is disinterested used to mean uninterested.
But again, I found a grammar-nerds site which in the end concluded that that battle was lost, in the New World anyway. Which is actually a supermarket chain here.
I'm a hold-out though - I refuse to use disinterested for not interested - and it's not just because my false teeth make the sibilants harder to say these days. ;)

[sesheta-66.livejournal.com]

TBH, 'gotten' never bothered me. Still doesn't. It's as common as any other word here (Canada), and I never heard an objection to it before HP fandom. I think of 'gotten' as similar to 'given'.

In Canada, we often 'side' with the British on spelling & grammar, but this wasn't something I'd ever heard before. *shrugs* I do, however, edit it out in any Brit stories.

[sesheta-66.livejournal.com]

As Canadians, we tend to side with the British on spelling/grammar most times, but I'd never heard 'gotten' as being wrong before the HP fandom. Half my family is Scottish, and between my uncle and my father, I would have expected them to point it out to me while I was growing up, had they thought it was wrong. Both were always particular about language. Though I suppose it's possible they never heard me use it.

I think of 'gotten' as similar to 'given'. It's always been a part of my vocabulary, and it never struck me as incorrect in its form.

Ah, fandom. A great place to learn about language variances. :)

[arcanetrivia]

"Clichés" is a valid plural noun to me (for example, a list of overused proverbs could be some clichés) and I have been known to use "clichéd" as a descriptor. This is incorrect? I had no idea. It strikes me as another example of our passion for nouning and verbing, TBH.

[arcanetrivia]

Oh, okay, I see what you're getting at.

I would use "cliché" naked if I'm using it as a singular noun. For an adjective, hm. I know that I have done, but I can't describe what internal grammar rules would ask me to do so. It might be that there are none and I'm just sloppy about interchanging it with "clichéd".

As for how this came about, I think it may be related to the general trend in dropping -(e)d from past participle phrases, which usually annoys the heck out of me ("whip cream"? grraaaahhh elethian smash!) aside from cases where it's already well-established ("ice cream"). (How long does it take for something to transition from being sloppy and incorrect to being the usual form and relegating the old way to an historical footnote?)

However, there is also some slack in my mind for people without English as a first language; I notice particularly from the many Chinese and Vietnamese speakers we have here that they often seem to have trouble fully pronouncing the participle ending, and words like "whipped" and "mixed" and such come out with a kind of glottal stop at the end instead of the full -ed sound. (Not that this makes it correct to write it that way.)

[arcanetrivia]

Do you ever use forms of cliché other than plain old cliché? Such as clichéd or clichés? I [often] see it used in a manner that I would consider wrong

You asked whether Americans used those forms, and then went on to say that you often saw usage you considered wrong. Without further clarification, given that the overall context of an American usage question is usually to point out that American usage can permit some things British considers wrong, the whole construction comes out seeming to say "Americans, do you use these forms? I think they're weird and I wondered if you also did, or if they were correct in AmE." (at least, that's how I read it.)

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Both are quite correct! What sounds like an attempt to be unbiased while still providing examples in my English apparently means exactly the opposite to others! And hurrah for upholding different forms when using words in novel ways!

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think you are quite right, a paragraph break between those two sentences would be much better. As a broad generalisation, Britglish is more discursive, AmE more debate oriented, a difference I do often forget.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Yes, most of your shifts in words come from shifts in pronunciation. And there are a lot of words spelled one way and pronounced another, like the Australian tumeric/turmeric (first spoken, second written).