AV/Preferential voting
May. 5th, 2011 10:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Life is still chaos. HOWEVER, in the interests of accuracy, I need to make a short post on AV for the Britflist.
'Australians' DO NOT want to get rid of AV, and there is not a massive move to 'go back' to life before AV.
For a start, there are very few 114-year-old Australian voters. AV has been in place here since 1918. The 'going back' idea is a fiction.
There was a poll taken that came out with more Australian voters in favour of FPTP than AV, however, the poll itself is pretty bloody questionable -- for a start its main question asks about hypothetical perfect models rather than saying: 'do you like the way we vote in Australia, or would you rather vote the way people vote in the UK/US?'
This was an intentional decision as the people who commissioned the vote were a think tank who are in favour of FPTP voting. Now, people commission dodgy polls all the time. That's fine, I'd probably do the same if I thought I could get linked-up cycleways in Sydney through. But it's a CRAP reason for someone to vote no in the UK.
Vote no if you believe in the No case, absolutely.
But in Australia, people are by and large very happy with the way we vote, even if it ends up with comedy parliaments like our current one. The people who are actually against AV are politicians who have lost out because of it (most recently the local BNP-like lupin) and people who find it annoying to have to number a ballot one to eight. In the UK, with non-compulsory voting, this second set could stay home and rest their delicate wrists.
For a clear and concise history of how AV has affected results in Australian federal elections, check out the excellent Anthony Green here.
Make up your own minds, but don't for a moment swallow the 'The Aussies hate it!' line. Oh, and you can safely ignore the 'It's really hard!' line, too. FFS, Australians can do it!
'Australians' DO NOT want to get rid of AV, and there is not a massive move to 'go back' to life before AV.
For a start, there are very few 114-year-old Australian voters. AV has been in place here since 1918. The 'going back' idea is a fiction.
There was a poll taken that came out with more Australian voters in favour of FPTP than AV, however, the poll itself is pretty bloody questionable -- for a start its main question asks about hypothetical perfect models rather than saying: 'do you like the way we vote in Australia, or would you rather vote the way people vote in the UK/US?'
This was an intentional decision as the people who commissioned the vote were a think tank who are in favour of FPTP voting. Now, people commission dodgy polls all the time. That's fine, I'd probably do the same if I thought I could get linked-up cycleways in Sydney through. But it's a CRAP reason for someone to vote no in the UK.
Vote no if you believe in the No case, absolutely.
But in Australia, people are by and large very happy with the way we vote, even if it ends up with comedy parliaments like our current one. The people who are actually against AV are politicians who have lost out because of it (most recently the local BNP-like lupin) and people who find it annoying to have to number a ballot one to eight. In the UK, with non-compulsory voting, this second set could stay home and rest their delicate wrists.
For a clear and concise history of how AV has affected results in Australian federal elections, check out the excellent Anthony Green here.
Make up your own minds, but don't for a moment swallow the 'The Aussies hate it!' line. Oh, and you can safely ignore the 'It's really hard!' line, too. FFS, Australians can do it!
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Date: 2011-05-05 12:58 pm (UTC)Where do I sign up to vote "yes to AV" for Canada? :|
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Date: 2011-05-05 01:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 01:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 01:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 01:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 01:14 pm (UTC)A number of Liberal voters simply refused to vote at all since they couldn't in good conscience vote red (seriously, the Liberals are a disaster.)
I also think that Osama bin Laden's death announcement was a tiny contributing factor -- I think many who were on the fence, particularly in affluent white liberal areas saw the news and decided that the military spending in Harper's platform is a splendid idea after all.
Seriously, Toronto went blue. Toronto. Jesus wept.
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Date: 2011-05-06 02:24 am (UTC)...hi. I'm an Aussie. I like AV. AV lets you have input into the political discussion. It occassionally has its down side, but for the most part? It's the best system available, in my opinion. (Sorry I jumped on your comment without introducing myself properly.)
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Date: 2011-05-06 02:32 am (UTC)I really, really love the idea of AV and think it would fit our multi-party system very well. But our fearless Tory leaders are hell-bent on convincing us (and our esteemed southern neighbours) that we are JUST like the USA, except our liberal/conservative colours are switched from theirs. At least the good thing that came out of this year's election was that we very clearly proved we are not like the USA, seeing as we have a new opposition party that is neither red nor blue.
(And I got that you meant the general you, no worries. :))
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Date: 2011-05-06 02:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 01:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 01:05 pm (UTC)Just like pretty much every other vote we've ever had. Oh, Canada. :|
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Date: 2011-05-05 01:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 01:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 01:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 02:04 pm (UTC)(Though of course with something like AV, hardline partisan voters would deliberately rank their most hated parties last instead of looking at platforms like they're supposed to, which would see a lot of Green/Marxist/Pirate/etc second/third/fourth choices. :|)
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Date: 2011-05-05 01:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 02:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 02:30 pm (UTC)AV and preferential voting in Australia are not identical, but they are close. For how the proposed AV system would work: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11243595
For how Australian preferential voting works, we return to the redoubtable Mr Green (who is one of my fave election analysts in the world): http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2004/guide/howpreferenceswork.htm
And for some good links over where the debate in the UK has turned into something quite mad, this page was quite neatly written: http://www.involve.org.uk/the-av-referendum-how-we-can-get-the-conversation-back-on-track/
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Date: 2011-05-05 03:32 pm (UTC)(And I had to get my mind out of the gutter: 'AV' is a common term in yaoi storylines, meaning "adult video". Heh, yep, everyone should have adult videos!)
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Date: 2011-05-05 04:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 03:48 pm (UTC)I am so annoyed that people have accepted the reason to vote no is 'because you're too stupid to understand it'
Who calls the voter stupid and wins?
Oh yeah, the British!
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Date: 2011-05-05 04:31 pm (UTC)The average Brit and the average Aussie are very averagely similar!
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Date: 2011-05-05 11:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 04:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 04:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-05 05:28 pm (UTC)GUYS, WE DON'T WANT TO BE UNCOOL.
Also, LOL at 'you're too stupid to understand how to count to eight!' The No-to-AV arguments are rather bewildering.
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Date: 2011-05-06 03:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-06 08:55 am (UTC)I get sad when I look at my ballot paper. So few choices here!
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Date: 2011-05-06 11:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-06 03:12 pm (UTC)I laugh (with relief) every time she fails an election.