Pilgrims gave me flu!
Sep. 17th, 2008 08:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
No, seriously! Months after their orange backpacks left the Emerald City, Sydney is still feeling the impact of the WYD pilgrims' sharing natures. THEY LEFT US THIS FLU! Bastards! And look, even the Catholic News says it's true! Well, likely at any rate. Apparently the three-week-plus flu that turns to bronchitis is knocking people out across the city, and has been since July, so I am not alone in my feebleness.
Honestly, it was bad enough when it was just nuns trying to plough me to the ground.
Bryoney opined that I have been talking too much sport and not enough fandom lately, so three links to make her feel loved. The first is to a very interesting question posed by
bewarethesmirk in her post here. She asks what it is about some styles of writing that immediately succeeds in drawing the reader in. I've blathered on at length in a comment, as have several others, and I think that we're edging towards the total picture, but I am sure that more brains, particularly brains as big as you lot have, will get to the actual answer. Alas, it's flocked, but if you're not on her flist, feel free to chat here.
My dear
jadzialove wrote a story recently in which Weasley brothers engaged in activities of an adult nature only suitable for readers over 18. With each other. We both squealed in a frightened fashion, she even while writing. However, that was nothing compared to this story from The Times. To quote their head and standfirst:
For maximum bemusement, you have to read the comments.
Thirdly, Maya has posted the last chapter of Quality of Mercy, and
there have been many posts along the lines of OMG, it's not H/D! To which I have to say, der! There was never any pairing specified, Harry and Ginny's relationship has been written as genuine and developing the whole way through, Harry has been protective and fraternal in his relationship with Draco and Draco has been someone desperately trying to forge actual relationships in his world, rather than just getting what he wants. Why would a writer ditch all of that worldbuilding for a ship in which she has only written some of her fics?
I sometimes wonder if people actually read fics as actual creative works or just go through them ticking off their internal preference list. "Yay, there's a cool one-liner, there's an insight into canon, there's a good spot of fanon, excellent UST, and ... and ... THAT'S IT? NO SMEX? YOU SUCK!" On bad days, I suspect the latter.
Oh well. A happy fandom aside: 2500 words of Darkfest written, 1700 of them even consecutive!
And, my final Paralympics moment, Australia lost to the US in the rugby, but Kurt Fearnley won the marathon! YAY!
Honestly, it was bad enough when it was just nuns trying to plough me to the ground.
Bryoney opined that I have been talking too much sport and not enough fandom lately, so three links to make her feel loved. The first is to a very interesting question posed by
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
My dear
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
I had sex with my brother but I don't feel guilty
A woman slept with her sibling for years and has good memories. Not many people understand their relationship, she says
I can't say I'm surprised to hear that.For maximum bemusement, you have to read the comments.
Thirdly, Maya has posted the last chapter of Quality of Mercy, and
there have been many posts along the lines of OMG, it's not H/D! To which I have to say, der! There was never any pairing specified, Harry and Ginny's relationship has been written as genuine and developing the whole way through, Harry has been protective and fraternal in his relationship with Draco and Draco has been someone desperately trying to forge actual relationships in his world, rather than just getting what he wants. Why would a writer ditch all of that worldbuilding for a ship in which she has only written some of her fics?
I sometimes wonder if people actually read fics as actual creative works or just go through them ticking off their internal preference list. "Yay, there's a cool one-liner, there's an insight into canon, there's a good spot of fanon, excellent UST, and ... and ... THAT'S IT? NO SMEX? YOU SUCK!" On bad days, I suspect the latter.
Oh well. A happy fandom aside: 2500 words of Darkfest written, 1700 of them even consecutive!
And, my final Paralympics moment, Australia lost to the US in the rugby, but Kurt Fearnley won the marathon! YAY!
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Date: 2008-09-17 12:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 12:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-09-17 12:32 pm (UTC)... I've been rendered speechless.
On the other hand...
Bryoney opined that I have been talking too much sport and not enough fandom lately, so three links to make her feel loved.
You talking about sport is exciting, though! :D
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Date: 2008-09-17 12:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 12:37 pm (UTC)(And as far as I can tell, bewarethesmirk's post IS locked, btw.)
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Date: 2008-09-17 12:40 pm (UTC)I'll edit that. Meanwhile, you can read QoM at last, hurrah! It's good, though the ending has its flaws, though they're not the ones that people are on about.
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Date: 2008-09-17 12:41 pm (UTC)I honestly didn't know that Maya wrote other pairings. It wasn't until the second to last chapter that I even saw someone mention it. Hah! Though I certainly hope no one was wasting their time waiting around for an NC-17 because she simply doesn't write those. It was a gorgeous story, wasn't it? I can't wait for the end of Drop Dead Gorgeous, now. *waits*
That article was fantastic, thank you! :D
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Date: 2008-09-17 12:46 pm (UTC)But yes, gorgeous is the word. I found the ending a trifle rushed, but the depth of care and love she gave her characters made the whole thing such a pleasure to read. I still haven't commented because I am trying to process it to a point where I think I can really sum up what I think.
And fantastic certainly sums up that article! Truth is so much weirder than fiction!
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Date: 2008-09-17 12:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 12:58 pm (UTC)Though I think there would be a few more women in the filter, even though some of them only love F1 or British tennis players.
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Date: 2008-09-17 01:02 pm (UTC)warning: unpopular opinion...
About QoM reactions. She used the H/D UST to carry the tension in the story. So of course when it's unfulfilled, people will complain. If it was intended as a gen-with-slash-sidestory, then the UST should've been demoted in focus. It felt like a bait and switch. I read gen stories with/without H/D accents. I love "Not in the Hands of Boys". If Harry and Draco don't end up together in that, I wouldn't be disappointed, because the rest of the story is engaging, and it doesn't rest on UST to carry the dramatic tension.
Obviously, I should reveal my general dislike of UST. It's not my thing. So, if someone misuses or abuses it, I'm quick to call it out and quit the story. I didn't quit QoM, but it was a close thing.
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Date: 2008-09-17 01:10 pm (UTC)Look, I think that's a valid reading and I can see how you come to it. For me I read the story where Draco is a rat immediately before I started QoM, so I was always reading it as a more Gen story, and saw Draco's UST for Harry as another aspect of his experimentation with his relationships and sexuality, like Charlie and Pansy and even Smith and Nott.
I think if I had begun to read it now, having been immersed in H/D for a whole year, I might have had a slightly different mindset, but I would still have suspected it was going to end up H/G given the previous chapters.
DDG, of course, needs to end up H/D or with Draco neatly wiping you-know-who's blood from his lily white hands.
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Date: 2008-09-17 01:09 pm (UTC)I think the reaction of 'OMG! it's not H/D' is very valid. It's not that anyone truly expect a bunch of kinky porn in the last chapter (I hope) but the H/D was played up equally if not far more than H/G. Ginny had a lovely journey from canon!Ginny to be someone very likeable. But Harry was also on a journey from someone who only thought of Draco as someone to save to be someone to fall in love with. His focus was almost enterly on Draco throughout the fic.
I'm not saying that I was 100% sure it was H/D, clearly it could have gone either way but my guess (and my hope) was certianly with H/D.
I'm not going to rant about not getting my choice, But Maya played her cards close to her chest, so fans have a right to be surprise to be disappointed/surprised either way it turned out.
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Date: 2008-09-17 01:21 pm (UTC)I can see that reading, but it's not the one that my brain came up with.
I think both readings are probably right, there's certainly textual support for them, and it comes from your starting point. I started thinking she was a fairly het/gen writer because the story I'd read before was Draco Malfoy the Amazing Bouncing Rat, which is DM/HG.
For me there was such a strong emphasis on Harry finally having a family, and wanting to provide that for Draco, too. And the guilt he felt when he realised he was jealous of Charlie was the guilt of someone fancying someone wholly inappropriate. So I was all set up for Harry doing the 'honourable thing', especially after his lovely speech in the penultimate chapter. I wasn't in the least surprised when he did!
But now I am wondering, is the idea that a story needs to end H/D the major reason to read for some people? That hadn't occurred to me, because I am crap at fandom ;-)
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Date: 2008-09-17 01:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 01:22 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-09-17 01:19 pm (UTC)I tell you, no good comes of World Youth Day. You got the flu, we got massive sewage flood. Berrr, nothing good. *grumbles under her breath about religion and teenagers and Popes*
In terms of QoM, I confess to being a little let down, not so much that it wasn't h/d (though I was disappointed about that - it would have been a really wonderful crafting of their coming together but whatever, I can deal) but more that the ending felt so rushed. This has been my favourite SRB fic and I know she has other obligations now and needs to wrap it up but it seemed like a lot happened very quickly and the epilogue didn't cut it for me in terms of bringing emotional closure. I liked the openness of it - maybe Harry and Ginny would work out, maybe they wouldn't, Harry and Draco are still close, who knows what will happen there - but I just felt unsettled. BUT, it was still a great story.
Now, off to check out bewarethesmirk and the smarty-pants conversation you've been having.
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Date: 2008-09-17 01:44 pm (UTC)I actually agree with your reading of the ending. I thought the H/G was inevitable, but the whole battle felt rushed and strangely paced. Her inter-relationships were lovely, but her pacing and plot were a bit off. And yeah, the epilogue was a little like that American Soap that famously had someone waking up and declaring the last X months plot lines to be 'just a dream!' Not that I saw it because I am clearly far too high-brow for that ;-)
I really want to read what you have to say to BTS, I got about halfway to where I wanted to be then ran out of brains!
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From:i apologise for this absurdly long comment ;(
Date: 2008-09-17 01:30 pm (UTC)some of the folks on my flist who were unhappy felt that way b/c they simply like defined pairings. if h/g had been defined from the beginning and it ended that way, they would've been satisfied. i guess this situation feels like dangling a carrot before the donkey and all that, only to be presented with an unappetising stick ;)
that being said, i know i'd be quite upset if DDG didn't end as h/d. if one of the characters DIES and that's the reason for harry not ending up with draco [or something along those lines], then i'll be understanding. but otherwise i'll be more than disappointed b/c the entire fic has revolved around harry's obsession/love for draco.
i haven't read the times article you linked, but i don't understand how siblings can sleep with each other either. i may be able to read about in fic [although it squicks me out like no tomorrow] but my aversion to in RL is even greater *shudders*
Re: i apologise for this absurdly long comment ;(
Date: 2008-09-17 01:41 pm (UTC)I have to quote myself in another answer:
DDG, of course, needs to end up H/D or with Draco neatly wiping you-know-who's blood from his lily white hands.
There is no other way!
But yeah, I can see why people who came into QoM through DDG would have the reading they're mostly having. I do think that SRB gave a load of hints to defuse that reading, and they were fairly anvilicious in the last chapter, but fandom trains us to be strange readers sometimes. Like the defined pairings thing ... why do we only read stories in our ships? As soon as I have time I shall read more gen and het! (So, 2012)
The article is frankly odd, though I am happy that neither of them seem to be damaged by the experience. But the responses are hilarious. My favourite was a person who essentially said: "You are going to hell and your actions are a sign that we are in the end of days when Satan walks the Earth and siblings go for a quick shag when mum and dad are out, that's just sick! Having said that, this was a very well-written article."
Re: i apologise for this absurdly long comment ;(
From:Re: i apologise for this absurdly long comment ;(
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Date: 2008-09-17 01:44 pm (UTC)And I second
In terms of QoM, I agree with you, I think, from my don't want to examine my feelings too deeply in case I burst into tears viewpoint. I guess if it had been a couple of chapters longer, or maybe if Draco's kiss/revelation had come a little sooner, I'd feel more cheated out of my H/D ending, considering that Harry feels so strongly for Draco. He just needed prompting into realising it. As it is ... well, I can kind of pretend that her epilogue comes only a day or two after the last scene, so of course Harry hasn't had time to examine his feelings in too much detail.
Which ... is probably cheating on my part. Huh. Oh well; suits me. :)
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Date: 2008-09-17 01:52 pm (UTC)Yeah, I could see it going over into the H/D land, and I think there was meant to be a sense that it might, but the penultimate chapter pretty much squashed that for me. War Harry is so different to Veela Harry. Of course, if DDG ends up with them both alive and not together, I will be outraged ;-)
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Date: 2008-09-17 03:00 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2008-09-17 05:48 pm (UTC)And I must say I enjoyed QoM very much. While I don't think Harry's feelings for Draco are all the fraternal, the fact that H/D was not clearly resolved is not a huge hang-up for me. :)
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Date: 2008-09-18 04:24 pm (UTC)And I have to say that yes, he's certainly not all fraternal, and that I can agree that H/G might fail in future and H/D come about, but I did like the H/G in QoM far more than that in DH!
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Date: 2008-09-17 06:22 pm (UTC)Also, I'm not a heterophobe like some slash readers (not accusing anyone, just saying...), and I read H/G from time to time - willingly, mind you - so I'm not upset that it ended up as H/G.
I just felt sort of... Let down. The story felt like it was building to something, and then sort of deflated for me. That was my problem with it. I wanted there to be some sort of revelation or explosion beyond The Battle of Hogwarts (which I DID already read about in the book... Ooh, bitchy! *gasp*).
Anyway, I predict the wank will be great with this one and I plan to stand over to the side being relieved that I'm a complete H/D noob who didn't even read the fic until 36 hours ago and wasn't really invested anyway.
And I've been enjoying your sporty posts! It's nice to read about something different every once in a while. :D
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Date: 2008-09-17 07:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-09-17 07:07 pm (UTC)http://community.livejournal.com/ddg_and_sundry/13803.html#cutid1
Sorry I didn't ask in advance. Thanks as usual for your thoughts! You can read mine in that post if you want
Love, Anna
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Date: 2008-09-18 03:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-17 09:40 pm (UTC)I COULD TOTES SING THE MOULIN ROUGE soundtrack TO THIS STORY!!OMG!! At first it was OMGILOVEYOU and then it was WHATYOUBETRAYME?!?! and then it was OMGCOMEWHATMAYILUFOREVERBABY!111!!!!
I LOVAGED the ending. LOVAGED EET!! And I did not think I would, moving as it was toward the newandimprovedninja!Ginny/Harry relationship. BUT!!!!!!!!!!OMG!!!!!!!! I read it today in a waiting room, and BOYOHBOY was it everything I could hope for and moar. SURE I didn't get my H/D loving but, you knoe what? It was BETTER than certainty, better than having things neatly folded and put away in a drawer (?which). IMO and maybe I'm totes wrong but I dun think it ended HP/GW. I think it ended up with all the cards in the air and all my BEAUTIFUL young things looking UP with hopeful faces at the cards to see where they'd fall. I'm so so happy with this ending I can't even explain it to meself. It gave me exactly what the Epilogue took a way, a Harry-lief full of possibilities. I FEEL THE HOPE. ♥ ♥ ♥ :)))))))))))))
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Date: 2008-09-18 04:39 pm (UTC)And yes, I think you are totally right about the end not being the whole end! That's what I liked about it being set so closely to the battle scene, they were left young and open to change, not middle aged and still with their old prejudices.
Hope you're feeling better, Moo!
Thanks for the discussion
Date: 2008-09-18 12:41 am (UTC)Re: Thanks for the discussion
Date: 2008-09-18 03:20 am (UTC)Re: Thanks for the discussion
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Date: 2008-09-18 02:54 am (UTC)As RE: the mad OMG HET ONOZ posts... I get it, to an extent, in that I also felt a bit disappointed. The ending was definitely rushed, but the epilogue was delightful. I think my own disappointment stems from how very, very well Maya (although I suppose she's Sarah these days) has always written H/D -- it's compulsively readable and heartbreaking and funny and fantastic, all at once. I was expecting that moment, and it never came in QoM.
I'll also agree with another commenter who pointed out how very, very much the UST figured into the story -- of course it's entirely believable that two seventeen-year-old boys would have mixed-up feelings RE: each other that didn't end in smex0rz, but I didn't think this story was one of them, because of the attention paid to the UST and the longing glances and the compatibility... of course, the events of the last two or three chapters easily could have been spread into seven or eight but for the obvious time constraints.
In short -- and incoherently, since I spent the day sitting in a retirement plan implementation meeting and the evening cleaning carpets -- it's still an enjoyable, remarkably well-written story. But I get the disappointment on a level other than the visceral.
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Date: 2008-09-18 03:24 am (UTC)I wonder if there would be the same sense of outrage if it was a story that fandom had come to with different expectations? Because I am sure that my reading of it was very informed by the fact I'd been reading Sarah het just before I began this one. I'm loving this discussion, everyone has such interesting viewpoints to add!
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Date: 2008-09-18 02:56 am (UTC)It kind of amazes me how people in fandom (or people in general, I suppose) sometimes refuse to entertain the possibility that their expectations might not be fulfilled. I spent two years chipping away at a long fic and posting it sporadically as a WIP, and I warned readers from the outset that it would never go above PG-13. I still ended up with a lot of readers who felt disappointed that there was no sex (or even, actually, a kiss, because I am just that evil).
As for QoM, I really loved the ending. I loved the happiness and the hope of it, but perhaps above all I loved the ambiguity of it. Yeah, Harry's with Ginny, but things are at present unsettled. Maybe he will end up sharing a lifetime with her. Maybe they'll grow apart and Harry will turn to Draco at last. Or maybe he won't end up with either, since he is, after all, only a teenager with his whole life a beautiful blank page before him. I love that she doesn't absolutely resolve things. And I really need to go back to her LJ and re-read the chapter so I can tell her in more detail just why I did love it so much. ;)
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Date: 2008-09-18 03:18 am (UTC)In the first case, after thinking about it last night, I do take many people's point that Maya may have deliberately allowed people to assume H/D. I wasn't one of those people, but I can see how anyone who reads her as an H/D writer would have read QoM in ways that reinforced their intentionalist stance. And I can see why they were surprised, I was surprised at the end of DH when there was no rapprochement with the Slytherins, because I had always assumed there must be.
But the things you loved about the ending are the elements that made it succeed for me. I think that action and plot-wise it was a little rushed, but you have perfectly described what worked, and how well it did!
Heh! Go you and your resistance to peer pressure! Not every story needs porn!
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Date: 2008-09-18 08:21 am (UTC)I knew people were hoping for H/D and I was braced for disappointment but I felt my first responsibility was to write the best story I could. I was sorry to disappoint people, but I would've felt I was letting them down very badly by writing the wrong ending. I realise you didn't think the end was perfect (sadly, I have never ever written anything perfect, though that's no reason to stop trying) but I am glad you were okay with the pairing: thank you for the thoughts and provoking the discussion!
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Date: 2008-09-18 05:22 pm (UTC)As I say, I think that the ending of the story came naturally out of what had gone before. And the pacing issues through the battle were a natural consequence of time. There's only so much effort you can put into fic when there is original writing to be done. And it certainly wasn't *bad*. The relationships between the characters were beautifully drawn, and I loved the dragon -- of COURSE! (And I am now wondering why Charlie Weasley didn't just turn up with a bomber wing of giant reptiles in DH. Probably because JKR had visons of the film version looking like Battle of Britain.)
I have very much enjoyed the thoughts that your writing provokes. From Harry's guilt over Nagini to the questions of what makes a family, it's been an original journey. As an editor, I spend a lot of time despairing about the future of narrative writing, but you're one of the people who cheers me up.
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Date: 2008-09-18 02:13 pm (UTC)Oh, and you know what? Whenever people post about their progress re:fic writing, they manage to make me nervous about my own lack of progress. This post is the first that hasn't. :D
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Date: 2008-09-18 03:43 pm (UTC)That's because I'm incredibly slow, isn't it? ;-)
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Date: 2008-09-18 10:23 pm (UTC)In relation to QoM, I loved it, as I have done with all of Maya's fics. Although to be fair, I do feel some valid points have been discussed here. It... amuses me I suppose, that the fic has been subjected to so many discussions! It seems to me that there hasn't been so many different opinions about a story since the seventh book itself was released LOL. A sign of Maya's fanbase no doubt.
Thanks again for the article. :D
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Date: 2008-09-19 03:23 pm (UTC)I think that the issues some people had with DH meant that they were hoping Maya would address them in her telling of that time. I have to say I like her Slytherins much more than the canon ones. But you're very right in that only a very good, and popular, writer can elicit this much discussion!
Confessed heterophobe
Date: 2008-10-12 07:20 am (UTC)I am a confessed heterophobe, and I've tried to reform, but I can't, I just can't! I see a fic, it's promising, then I see Harry/Ginny and I
shudder at how utterly freudian it is, oedipus complex anyone?run, in the other direction where Snarry and Drarry abound!It might stem for the fact that even when I try to write, I giggle when I'm writing het, it's just...no. Which is really the cognitive process my brain goes through.
On the other hand, I've read a lot of great fiction that results in the pairing being left up in the air, and it's satisfying, and it leaves one to appreciate the beauty in the writing and not just revel in the pairing. Not to say that one doesn't appreciate the beauty in a paired fic, but you know what I mean.
Let's face it, fandom is full of fangirls who are all romantics/lustaholics. The smex is almost expected now, it's unfortunate but true.
My reformation is a WIP.
Re: Confessed heterophobe
Date: 2008-10-12 07:21 am (UTC)Oops.
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