This is one of those comments that I am not exactly sure how to read, because I need to know what word you are stressing. Damn technology for not giving us all easy voiceposting by now!
I think Gabe might mean Britsh writers when he says 'the right people'. As opposed to those who have Malfoys purchasing curry at the Tesco for tea.
Unless of course you mean to say that it's normal rather than charming, in which case, yes, good point.
I don't mind who's writing, British or not, I don't read stories set in the UK to pick up 'charming' details about British life. British life is indeed normal for those of us who live in Britain and, thus, for the characters in British-based canon. They are not thinking about the details of their lives, because mostly these are not important as they go about their lives. All I want writers to tell us is what we need to know for the sake of the story, no more and no less.
Your poll question was about 'detailed descriptions of British life' and I'm afraid that is the last thing I am looking for in a story. Sometimes, details are very important in a story and that's fine. Those details 'disappear' into the story, so that while you may be learning things you didn't know, you don't notice it. More often, what passes for 'detailed descriptions of British life' becomes 'Here's my research, let me show you it.' Even if it's accurate, it's utterly tedious.
I would rather read a well written story that has Americanisms splashed all over it, than one which has had its heart and lungs wrenched out of it by detailed descriptions of 'charming' British life.
That makes sense. The word 'detailed' was probably a poor choice, though 'descriptions of British life that may be essential for your understanding of the story if you are (as most of fandom is) not familiar with it' seemed overly wordy.
I am probably somewhat scarred (and thus overreacting) because of one particular trainwreck of a story that was almost nothing but tediously detailed descriptions of British life that were always almost, but not quite, right. The author used to hang out on a lot of the britpicking forums and I both dreaded and looked forward to whatever question would come up next. The temptation to feed false information has never been greater.
I have a terrible feeling I may have read the same story ...
Yes, you're quite right about the evils of too much detail. The problem I find myself coming up against again and again is how to keep an American reader travellling with the story without dumbing down desperately. I set one story in Australia (it seemed a good idea at the time) and found myself with the same problem for British readers, too.
And then, of course, there is the other side to the issue: does this all make a difference or is the author better off just going straight to the snogging?
I just haven't really found that this is a problem. Occasionally an American reader will query something or leave a comment that shows they didn't quite get something, but on the whole, it seems to be fine. Maybe there's a whole host of Americans out there who've never read more than one chapter of my stories because they had no idea what was going on! But as a reader (of novels set in other places, rather than fic) I've never really struggled either. My natural tendency is always to let the context dictate and not worry too much if I don't get every detail. And if there's something I really don't understand, I'll look it up. I wouldn't expect an author to 'dumb down' by explaining everything for me, and I wouldn't do it for my readers either.
You know, I am beginning to suspect that I agonise over things that may not really be such issues; will anyone die if I misrepresent the Anglo-Finnish relationship?
I'm a journalist in real life and spend a lot of time ringing people to check that I am not misrepresenting them. It is quite possible that this dribbles out into my writing ...
Just looked at your poll vote. How then do you manage your world building so that a non-British reader understands elements that can be obscure? And how do you create a world that's definitive if you leave them all out?
Um, the same way JKR did it? (No, I am not claiming to be JKR or a genius.) But honestly, it's not that hard. You write from the point of view of your British character. What are the things that they are thinking about and interested in? Probably not the date their house was built or the fact that their tea came from Tescos. And if the things they are interested in and thinking about are specifically British, you make sure that the context is sufficiently clear for the reader to put together enough that they need to know. Sometimes it doesn't matter, for the sake of the story, if different readers are imagining things differently.
Here's an example from a story I wrote that I was thinking about earlier today. I had Molly Weasley taking a casserole round to Percy when he was going through a difficult time. In the UK a casserole is a stew. In the US it is a bake. Both are comfort foods. I didn't see any need to explain to my readers that she was taking Percy a stew. Those who know that the word means something different in the UK will know that, and those who don't will still understand the purpose of the visit and the significance of the food. For the purpose of the story, that was all that mattered.
Maybe that's yet another difference between Brits and Merkans [or prolly just between you and me, really]. If I read a story about NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Dallas, LA, San Fran, Hollywood... I like having details, no matter how many times I've been there or how long I've lived there.
Obviously not details at the cost of pace/story/characters/plot/usw., but something about the city, especially if the charm of the city has helped shape the characters' personalities, which undoubtedly it should.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 02:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 02:56 am (UTC)I think Gabe might mean Britsh writers when he says 'the right people'. As opposed to those who have Malfoys purchasing curry at the Tesco for tea.
Unless of course you mean to say that it's normal rather than charming, in which case, yes, good point.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:06 am (UTC)Your poll question was about 'detailed descriptions of British life' and I'm afraid that is the last thing I am looking for in a story. Sometimes, details are very important in a story and that's fine. Those details 'disappear' into the story, so that while you may be learning things you didn't know, you don't notice it. More often, what passes for 'detailed descriptions of British life' becomes 'Here's my research, let me show you it.' Even if it's accurate, it's utterly tedious.
I would rather read a well written story that has Americanisms splashed all over it, than one which has had its heart and lungs wrenched out of it by detailed descriptions of 'charming' British life.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:22 am (UTC)Yes, you're quite right about the evils of too much detail. The problem I find myself coming up against again and again is how to keep an American reader travellling with the story without dumbing down desperately. I set one story in Australia (it seemed a good idea at the time) and found myself with the same problem for British readers, too.
And then, of course, there is the other side to the issue: does this all make a difference or is the author better off just going straight to the snogging?
no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:29 am (UTC)LOL. If in doubt, go straight to the snogging.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:42 am (UTC)I'm a journalist in real life and spend a lot of time ringing people to check that I am not misrepresenting them. It is quite possible that this dribbles out into my writing ...
no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:13 am (UTC)Here's an example from a story I wrote that I was thinking about earlier today. I had Molly Weasley taking a casserole round to Percy when he was going through a difficult time. In the UK a casserole is a stew. In the US it is a bake. Both are comfort foods. I didn't see any need to explain to my readers that she was taking Percy a stew. Those who know that the word means something different in the UK will know that, and those who don't will still understand the purpose of the visit and the significance of the food. For the purpose of the story, that was all that mattered.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 03:24 am (UTC)The covered? Casseroles.
The thanks? You're a very interesting commenter!
no subject
Date: 2008-12-18 04:45 pm (UTC)Obviously not details at the cost of pace/story/characters/plot/usw., but something about the city, especially if the charm of the city has helped shape the characters' personalities, which undoubtedly it should.